Inside of church with episode title

Are there any secrets left as we uncover the drama behind these four #momtok-ers?

In this episode, we discuss the remaining storylines from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives:

⚪Demi vs Whitney ⚪Jessi vs Whitney ⚪Layla vs Single Motherhood ⚪Mikayla vs Invisibility

Episode 102 on Spotify

Caitlin: Let’s talk a little bit about Momtalk and cosmic surgery while we’re cosmetic surgery. Yeah. What did I say? Cosmic surgery. It’s face surgery. Galactic surgery, you know, because, like, Saturn’s been feeling a little fat lately, and so it has to get some, like, rings taken off. Hi, this is Caitlin.

Sharon: And this is Sharon.

Caitlin: And welcome to Real Housewives on Real Housewives, where we unravel housewives story threads and keep the tea blowing.

Sharon: So chic.

Caitlin: Hold onto your righteous indignation.

Sharon: This week we’re digging into the remaining four wives, Demi, Jessie, Layla, and Mikayla from the brand new Hulu series the secret lives of Mormon wives, season one.

Caitlin: I didn’t realize Layla and Michaela Rhyme until we put them together. Oh, you’re right. So we’ve got the two eyes, we’ve got dem E and Jess E. And then we’ve got Layla and Michaela. Doctor seuss buzz. Okay. We’ll also kind of look at the LDS church response to the show. Cause that’s kind of interesting. All right, let’s start with Demi Engaman, who has a crossover with salt Real housewives with Salt Lake City, which we’ll talk about in a minute. But her verses is Demi versus Whitney. So Demi’s on her second marriage to none other than Brett Engelman, who was Angie Harrington’s first husband, which blew my mind. He is a former pro football player.

Sharon: That blew my mind.

Caitlin: I know, because when you think about Angie, you’re just like, yeah, whatever. Hm. But she’s married to elf on the shelf.

Sharon: I know. She is married to elf on a shelf after she was married to a pro football player who we saw in.

Caitlin: The show’s still pretty cute. He aged well. Yeah, he did. He aged better than elf on the shelf. Maybe what happens is when you get so involved in Instagram and Vince does. Right. But that ages you somehow. And that’s what happened to the second Mister Angie Harrington. It’s crazy.

Sharon: It is like she really went down.

Caitlin: You know, some people were saying they felt like because of that connection, that Demi might be the only one who you could actually lift out and maybe drop into real houses of Salt Lake City. And it could be interesting because for one thing, she really liked to chat and mix it up and explain why things happened, which we were talking about in the last episode. We think a lot of them were missing for their, you know, like, behind the scenes talking. She kind of had that talking head. So do you think that Demi could make it in Real Housewives? No, I’m afraid that she couldn’t. Once that initial I’m married to your ex husband wore off, I think she.

Sharon: Could be there and she could be sassy about that. And I think she could probably tell Angie Harrington off a little bit because.

Caitlin: Now that I’m thinking about it, like, with Jen and Zach and a lot of that, when your only drama is with your husband, that does not make for a lot of continuity in the show. Like, you have to have other things about you that are interesting and fights with the other women that are interesting. It can’t just be fighting over the husband. So I think you’re right. the other really interesting thing is, before she was married to brett, I got this from reality tea. she was married to a guy named blake, and they were friends with Brett, so she was pregnant, and they signed up brett for the bachelorette. He was supposed to be on, clare crawley season. and then remember, a Covid-19 breakout happened and they sent some of the men home and some came back and some didn’t. He didn’t come back, but initially he was gonna be on claire’s season and he was going to be the oldest contestant on her season.

Sharon: Oh, my gosh.

Caitlin: So the crossovers with her are crazy. That is crazy. And the bachelorette.

Sharon: Wow.

Caitlin: Yeah. But anyway, he ended up with demi after all this.

Sharon: Wait, so she was married to his friend before?

Caitlin: I guess. I think everyone knows everyone in Utah.

Sharon: Okay, that’s true. That’s true.

Caitlin: That’s a good point.

Sharon: Friends can mean a lot of things as we see on this show.

Caitlin: Right, exactly. He’s 16 years older than her. she’s the pot stirrer of the show. I think she’s more successful at potstoring than whitney. Would you say yes or no to that?

Sharon: She’s more successful at inserting herself. So I think Whitney herself causes more drama. But Demi had a good way of getting herself in there even though she really didn’t have a whole lot going on.

Caitlin: Yeah, I think she was able to started.

Caitlin: When there might not have necessarily been a spot for her in it.

Sharon: Exactly.

Caitlin: I also think she’s good at being truthful, but she’s not quite as mean as Whitney. Like, whitney’s just kind of a nasty piece of work. And Demi, I feel like she’s truthful, but she’s not trying to be a jerk. And so you forgive her a little bit.

Sharon: I agree. I think she’s a little bit gossipy, but kind of in a fun way, like, the way we talk about these women, she kind of does yeah, she’d.

Caitlin: Be good on this podcast. Hey, give us a call. do you think, were you surprised at all that it was Demi who kind of led the charge against Whitney? I thought it would have been Taylor Moore. Like, she skipped Taylor’s baby shower right off the bat. But then it was Demi was kind of like, I got this. I’ll lead the Whitney rebellion.

Sharon: And Demi, she just inserted herself. So in the beginning, I really liked Demi. I went through a phase. Then I kind of stopped liking her as much just because I felt like, she felt like she was the coolest thing in the world. So that’s the only thing I kind of feel like she’s. That I’m so different from all these, you know, perfect little Stepford wives. I’m just so cool. It’s like, well, you know what? Outside of Utah, most of us are just normal people and not Stepford wives. So I don’t know.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Sharon: But now I do like her. I do like her.

Caitlin: I kind of started off thinking I liked Demi more than Jessie, but I think I ended liking Jessie more than Demi.

Sharon: Me too. I did.

Caitlin: Yeah. But they kind of fulfill a similar role, which is interesting. Okay, so let’s talk about her versus Whitney. So Whitney very rudely brings a giant box of fruity pebbles out to her Galentine’s day party.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And it was sort of about, like, a secretive bedroom experience between Demi and her football husband, who I don’t know if he did this with Angie Harrington or not.

Sharon: Angie, let us know.

Caitlin: I hope that shows up on this season of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. but it was a girls vacation. It wasn’t filmed. Do you think it was rude or funny that Whitney showed up with the box with the inside joke about bedroom activities?

Sharon: No, because she specifically said she should never tell anybody.

Caitlin: I agree.

Sharon: And then also, Demi said something like, you obviously. I don’t know how she said, you obviously missed the point of tonight. M. It was something like that because she was like, tonight was supposed to be about women supporting women.

Caitlin: You’re right.

Sharon: And then you came in and you tore me down and tried to hurt me.

Caitlin: Which I think says something about Whitney. It’s like she can’t even just have a girls night.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: Like, she’s so into the gossip and in playing women against each other and tearing people down to make herself feel better. Yeah, I agree. And I also think. I think she said it too. But Whitney knew it was televised. Like, that is 100%. You can’t be like, oh, I just thought it was gonna be funny, and it’s not funny. If you thought it was funny, you would have done it weeks ago before they started filming. Like, this isn’t funny. And the other women, I think maybe should have been a little bit stronger with her. Like, was it? Was it? I think it was Macy and Michaela who were there with Whitney. I think they maybe should have said, this is not the moment. This is not funny. Like, don’t do it. so who do you think wins in Whitney versus Demi?

Sharon: Demi looks better in the end, by far.

Caitlin: In fact, that’s one of the times I think Whitney looked one of the worst. Yeah, I mean, that was really, like, it was uncomfortable and not funny.

Caitlin: Okay, let’s talk about Jessie. I’m gonna butcher this. It’s Jessie Nagatakara. That sounded pretty good. I don’t know that that was right, but it sounded like I knew what I was talking about. Okay. I felt like she took on the narrator role of the season. And I feel like we always say we need, like, one person on the housewives to be a narrator. So that was kind of Jessie’s role. her versus this week is Jessie versus Whitney. So Jesse is a hairdresser and owns Jay z style salon and a line of extensions. she looks a bit similar to Demi.

Sharon: Yes, she does.

Caitlin: And we saw a meme that we loved that was saying it was very much Lisa and Meredith, first season of Salt Lake City, because it was a little confusing. In fact, when I even wrote out the outlines, I had put the fruity pebbles thing under Jessie. And then I was looking at some other article, and I was like, oh, no, no, no. Wrong. I thought I had it, and I didn’t even have it, like a week ago. So, ah, that’s where we’re at now. Jesse has been divorced and is remarried, which is true of a lot of the women on the show.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: are we team Jessie or not team Jessie?

Sharon: I am team Jessie. I really liked her. You know, in the beginning, she didn’t have much of a presence, but then she kind of, you realize she was like, pretty much a normal person. She was one of the more mature. I don’t know if that’s cause she is the oldest at 31, but I think she’s just a more mature person in general.

Caitlin: I think that’s a good take. I couldn’t quite put my finger on what it was, but there’s always that person that you kind of hope is more like the rock in the center who isn’t just gonna go absolutely crazy and let you down. And Jesse kind of fulfilled that role. She looks like a hairdresser I used to have, which is funny cause she has a hairdresser. So now I’m like, you think I had her as a hairdresser? Did you used to do hair?

Sharon: You know what she did? Didn’t she do that? Whitney’s red hair in the beginning, did she do that?

Caitlin: Oh, I don’t know. That was a wig.

Sharon: Oh, okay.

Caitlin: And that maybe she just, like, had it at the salon. I didn’t like the red hair.

Sharon: Everyone else got long, pretty hair. But remember where, like, Whitney got like this?

Caitlin: Yeah. And she got the bob too. So what you’re trying to say is maybe Jesse doesn’t like wiggly. Yeah, but she took it out on her.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: You really should not make your hairdresser mad. I wouldn’t be really careful about that. Okay. So Jesse’s on team center with Demi and she seems to want Whitney gone because Whitney’s been very rude. Jesse’s the one at Layla’s divorce party, who kind of lays it out to whitney and says that no one trusts you, that you play with one toy until you like another, you find another you like better. You spell our secrets to others. Like, I appreciated the way she concisely said to whitney, what’s wrong now? Whitney didn’t take any of that in, but, like, as a viewer, I appreciated that. Do you think Jesse’s the one that we would say we trust the most what she says out of the group?

Sharon: I think so. She doesn’t seem like she’s really has another agenda, even though we know she does. She’s on this for a reason, but for some reason, she just kind of seems more like she’s there because she’s, I don’t know.

Sharon: She’s more natural about it, I guess.

Caitlin: Exactly. When I was thinking back to early on, it’s a little weird because it was her husband who was kind of rude at the graduation party.

Sharon: Oh, was he the one that was drinking?

Caitlin: She was the one that was drinking. So I did find that a little interesting because I kind of thought she was a little more calm and yet that was kind of the party girl part of her. A little bit more.

Sharon: Well, I kind of feel like maybe she’s less, is she more out of the religion than others?

Caitlin: I get that vibe. I don’t know if that’s true because.

Sharon: Maybe she was doing that just to poke, you know, poke the barrier. That was rude. They shouldn’t have done that it did.

Caitlin: And honestly, as we kind of learned later that maybe Jen interviewed and came later, maybe they didn’t know how big of, I mean, how much more Mormon, I guess, that Jen and Zack were.

Sharon: I guess they didn’t know they were not Mormon royalty.

Caitlin: Exactly. I thought that they were, like, they didn’t get the handout. Distractify, had an article saying that people thought Jesse was a clout chaser because she kind of had joined the whole mom talk thing after the scandal. So, like, that, because of what Taylor did, that that was the reason she joined. And it’s like, again, this whole thing, like, they all have reasons why, and they’re all. Their entire job is to get faultless.

Sharon: Exactly. That’s why they all do it.

Caitlin: I feel like you’re missing the point of the show if that’s the argument that you’re making, but whatever. Okay, while we’re talking about Jessie, let’s talk a little bit about cosmetic surgery, because Jessie had the labiaplasty. were you surprised at how much plastic surgery was a part of the journey of this season?

Sharon: When I saw Jesse initially, my initial reaction was like, oh, that’s like, she looks too much. Too much plastic surgery. But then, like, all housewives, you kind of get used to them. And now I think she’s really pretty.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Sharon: But, yeah, my first reaction was, what did she do to her face? I think it was mostly, like, the lip plumpers and stuff.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Sharon: So I guess I’m not surprised.

Caitlin: And I guess that would be a good argument as to why, like, Jesse and Demi looked very similar, because they both seem similar. But it’s true. Like, if you guys are doing similar injections, similar looks, and similar surgeons.

Sharon: Yeah. Kind of picture that. Like, the, like, the 50 year old woman that had too much plastic surgery, and they’re not 50, but you know how they all kind of look the same?

Caitlin: It all kind of starts, too. So it’s interesting.

Sharon: But Jesse, her whole jobs is looking good, so I can kind of see why she feels extrade.

Caitlin: Yeah. And I also feel like if you’re, you know, maybe if your salon is kind of also doing Botox and things like that, you might kind of be there and, like, be trying things out because you’re seeing things come in and.

Sharon: So Jesse versus Heather.

Caitlin: Yeah. Or, well, actually Jesse versus, Angie kay, because that’s the salon. Yeah.

Sharon: Oh, you’re right. And they’re both in Salt Lake City.

Caitlin: I want. Do you think, like, their salons fight? Like, they can’t, you know, they have to pass each other on the streets and glare at each other.

Sharon: Steal each other.

Caitlin: Exactly. What did you think? This was the thing I thought was the absolute weirdest thing to show and seemed like as a mom, I felt like this was hugely inappropriate. I guess the misuse of laughing gas. Oh my gosh, that was so. I mean, I guess it was right.

Sharon: Out of the game.

Caitlin: Well, I just felt like you don’t need it to do Botox. And then they were really acting like they were just using it like a drug in the office. And I felt like maybe that would be bad for the business if nothing else. Like that kind of looks like they’re misusing stuff.

Sharon: No, totally. It’s like the business owner. I would be like, oh my God, the drug people are going to come investigate us or something.

Caitlin: And I think this is like a parent who’s like, oh, I don’t want to see somebody get in trouble for that. I don’t know. It made me uncomfortable.

Sharon: I felt like they were going there and getting Botox just so they could get high.

Caitlin: That’s what it felt like.

Sharon: Can’t use drugs.

Caitlin: And again, it was like, okay, there’s just one more way that you’re just trying to get around something, but just using something else still counts, guys.

Sharon: Maybe they actually go get saline injected.

Caitlin: Oh, maybe the other thing I didn’t get is you can’t. You’re not supposed to use laughing gas when you’re pregnant.

Caitlin: Because when one of my kids had to have an oral surgery thing done, the lady was like, it was really, it was one of those weird moments where I felt like, excuse me, because, like, I had, I was just, just like pregnant with Henry. And she turned to me and goes, are you pregnant? Like, and we’re at a dental appointment. And I thought, well, that was a little bit. And I was like, well, actually, yeah. And she’s like, you can’t come with him to the appointment. And I was like, oh, she’s like, it can induce, like, labor, and so they don’t let you be around it. So I also thought in this mormon thing. Cause it was like, who knew whether Whitney was pregnant at that point? I mean, any of these women could all be. Yeah, it felt like a weird place to be using, like, laughing gas within that. So that. And then the other issue is like, the tattoos. Like, that was a whole other thing that I didn’t expect so much out of.

Sharon: Okay, that’s less comfortable to talk.

Caitlin: there’s no way to segue into this, but Jesse had a labiaplasty. I’ll just say it. I’m just gonna throw.

Sharon: Yeah. And then that made me think, what’s wrong with my normal?

Caitlin: Well, not. I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about it.

Sharon: It’s funny because I read this thing about how, like, women get them now. So now more women get them.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Sharon: Because basically no one thought of it. But once they hear someone, now you’re worried yours is. Now they’re like, well, maybe there’s something wrong with me and I need it too.

Caitlin: I know.

Sharon: So it kind of, like, it turns into this thing. Women, we kind of do it to ourselves.

Caitlin: I couldn’t believe she was showing it to them on the show.

Sharon: Oh, yeah. That was.

Caitlin: I didn’t even send you pictures of, like, what my nose looked like after surgery. Yeah.

Sharon: And it’s like, I wouldn’t want to see that. Like, I could. No, like, I could maybe see, like, a boob job maybe, because.

Caitlin: Hm.

Sharon: That’s a little.

Caitlin: I feel like it handled, but, like, no, no, I don’t want to see anybody parts. I mean, it was just interesting that there was constant cosmetic surgery discussion of it. The laughing gas, the tattoos. I was surprised there was more tattoos showing than. Again, you can tell the producers sort of had these things that they knew they needed to check off in the boxes. Like, okay, so they’re Mormons are proving that they have secret lives. So we need to show they’re not drinking. Okay, but the caffeine. We need to show the caffeine. They’re not doing, other drugs. Okay, we need to show the Botox and the laughing gas and the tattoos. And so some of it. Do you feel like some of it felt a little forced?

Sharon: Oh, you know, I didn’t think now that you say that, maybe kind of like, oh, look, we do go get high in our own way. He he he. In our own mom way. Yes, but why are they getting Botox in their twenties?

Caitlin: I know that, but that bums me up, too, because I feel like you can only ramp it up. like, can’t you just. Then you just want more and more, and then isn’t your face gonna look less and less like your face? If you can’t handle your twenties, you’re not gonna be able to handle your fifties.

Sharon: Exactly. It only gets worse.

Caitlin: It only gets worse. Like, I don’t know that it necessarily stop. It doesn’t stop. It. It wears off.

Sharon: And then do most people get laughing gas for Botox?

Caitlin: Because I don’t think so.

Sharon: From what I’ve seen it’s like a small syringe. It looks like it’s right under the skin. No, that should not really be that painful.

Caitlin: I don’t think so. I mean, and it’s like, I know on our insurance plan, it’s not even covered for, like, the dental stuff, like, when Matthew’s had his surgeries and stuff, like, we have to pay for that separately. So I don’t feel like it’s something that just sort of comes with procedures. Right. So again, it’s also like, I’m not sure you need it, and you’re already paying for the Botox. Do you need to pay for that too? Like, if their husbands would be, like, one or the other? Okay. why do we think the Mormons are so into cosmetic surgery? Because, with heather gay, I mean, do you think it just happens to be. But it seems like there is just such a culture of youth, like, within the Mormon community.

Sharon: Oh, interesting. I just kind of thought because they have to, they want to look perfect.

Caitlin: I mean, maybe that’s it, the perfection angle.

Sharon: But I wasn’t, I don’t know.

Caitlin: It could be.

Sharon: Is it also this younger generation? Because they are also the women that want to be influencers?

Caitlin: Yes, I think that’s true. Because, like, they were saying there’s that whole huge problem with, like, preteens spending all this money on, like, they’re at Ulta and stuff. What? M. Yeah, because remember we were in line at Ulta the other day and that mom was saying to that girl, like, I can’t believe I’m spending like $100 on your. And I was like, I can’t. I’m walking out of here with like a $5 thing. Lip gloss. who wins? And nobody wins in plastic surgery. No. but who wins in Jesse versus Whitney?

Sharon: Obviously Jessie.

Caitlin: Yeah, I think so too. Okay, let’s talk about Layla. We keep forgetting her. Okay.

Sharon: Every time you say Layla, I say, who?

Caitlin: I know Layla. And it gets me because I think she’s actually could be really interesting. I think she’s one of the prettiest.

Caitlin: But you’re right. For some reason, she’s a bit forgettable.

Sharon: She is so forgettable.

Caitlin: Maybe because she didn’t have a husband, we missed some of that fighting.

Caitlin: That propelled so many of the other women on the show. There was so much of a the husband versus you. And because she didn’t have that, maybe she got a little less airtime and.

Sharon: She’S kind of got, like, I don’t know what the word is like, meek. She’s not like a strong personality.

Caitlin: She’s not like.

Sharon: She kind of like, laughed, giggles, you know, like a little shy.

Caitlin: She’s not gonna fight for her moment. In fact, did she really have. I have her versus. Versus single momhood?

Sharon: Oh,

Caitlin: Really? Do you really argue with anybody? Like, did she get in a fight with any of the women?

Sharon: Wasn’t she somehow in the center’s group? Cause I was like, wait, layla’s in the center?

Caitlin: She was.

Sharon: And I was like, oh. Cause the divorce, I think.

Caitlin: Cause of the divorce and maybe the fact that she had tattoos. Oh, yeah.

Sharon: But then she got that tattoo to like, get closer to her sister. But she made it sound. She made it sound like she was doing it so her sister would like her.

Caitlin: Right. I didn’t understand that.

Sharon: Which made me fear that, like, she does stuff to make people like her.

Caitlin: I get that.

Sharon: Like, join the Mormon church.

Caitlin: Yeah, I think so. Cause she said, like, she was really, like, looking to belong as a kid and that’s why she joined it. She got married when she was 19. She’s currently divorced with two kids. she hadn’t had any finale. I don’t know how to say it, in the bedroom activities. Trying really hard to not make the disclaimer go too far for this episode. But, you know, I did like her funeral divorce party.

Sharon: That was clever.

Caitlin: I don’t know. It felt very like New Orleans. Do you think. This is my question. Do you think she should have come out of a coffin at the party? Remember when they said, oh my gosh, is she in the coffin?

Sharon: Like, I’m back? I would have liked it. Yeah.

Caitlin: I’m so disappointed that she wasn’t actually.

Sharon: That would have been awesome.

Caitlin: Bummed me out. do you think that in a way. Cause this is how I kind of felt about her. She kind of represents a lot of us in our early twenties. I just wanted to hug her. I felt bad for her.

Sharon: I did too.

Caitlin: And I think that’s the problem. You’re not gonna really like to watch someone who just reminds you of a part of you that makes you feel.

Sharon: Sad, that makes you cringe.

Caitlin: Exactly. Yes, and cringe. It’s like watching a younger version.

Sharon: Exactly. And it’s. I mean, there’s nothing.

Caitlin: No, she just makes all those good girl mistakes.

Sharon: Yeah, exactly. And I feel bad for that. She has two kids at 22.

Caitlin: Oh, no.

Sharon: I mean, I guess when she’s 40, they’ll be out of the house. So maybe she’s the smart one, but.

Caitlin: I don’t know, but for right now, it feels rough. Exactly. Do you think she did a good job of normalizing divorce in mormon culture?

Sharon: Yeah, I’m getting the feeling it’s not as scary scandalous as they say it is.

Caitlin: I thought maybe the show thought it was scandalous, but they didn’t. And then they kept asking them, and they were kind of like, oh, oh, yeah, do you want us to throw a party for it?

Sharon: And then they did all divorced or got pregnant before they were married.

Caitlin: Most of them were on their second marriage. Or you’re right. So it felt like it had. Maybe it wasn’t something that people would write it in the books and be like, this is how we want you to do your life, but clearly it’s part of the community.

Sharon: Or maybe they just don’t talk about it as much, but everyone does it.

Caitlin: Well, that seems like everything in this culture.

Sharon: Exactly.

Caitlin: They don’t talk about it, but they all do it. do you think so? Her thing this season was making yourself happy and finding yourself. Do you feel like she did that?

Sharon: We didn’t see it. If she did, we saw nothing. Yeah, all we saw was her have one party.

Caitlin: Right. And I’m not. At first, I was having the question, why does she stay, or how does she stay out of the drama? But you’re right. I don’t even think she’s even remotely near the drama. It’s not that she’s staying out of it. The drama is staying away from her.

Sharon: Yeah, she’s very sweet, but I don’t think she belongs on the show.

Caitlin: Yeah, I kind of agree with you. I feel like she might not m be back next season. Do you think?

Sharon: I don’t. I don’t know why they would. Unless she suddenly is like, yeah, I got all this stuff. I’m gonna. All this stuff happened this summer. Let me bring it. I don’t know.

Caitlin: I thought of a bunch of things I didn’t think of last time. I mean, maybe she has a new relationship that, like, puts her really out there. Like, that guy’s not Mormon or something, like, scandalous about that, but, yeah. so there’s not really a who wins in that because she’s not reversed as a person. Okay, let’s talk about Mikayla, who I was referring to as the victorian ghost for most of the season.

Sharon: So then I start telling her, the victorian ghost, and then I crowded.

Caitlin: She kind of floated into scenes, and she was really pale.

Sharon: I know.

Caitlin: Sickly. So, ironically, Mikayla’s versus Mikayla versus invisibility like, did we see her enough this season? The funny thing with her is I think that she could have been interesting and I don’t know why she wasn’t. I do think the fact that she had some disease that she couldn’t figure out.

Caitlin: That is interesting. more interesting than some of the other women who just didn’t have anything. She said her husband was really funny and they didn’t show him. I don’t know. So it’s like, I kind of wonder if maybe there’s some potential there. She got really annoyed at Whitney at the end.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: She basically just said, this is the worst birthday I’ve ever had, and kind of like stomped off.

Sharon: I was surprised.

Caitlin: I think there’s more drama to her than they let us see.

Sharon: Exactly. Either that or she’s super immature. I kind of. She looked really immature. But granted, Whitney sucks.

Sharon: I mean, I know Whitney sucks, but she still seemed immature about it.

Caitlin: Yeah, that’s.

Sharon: But then maybe her reaction was really justified. I just couldn’t picture acting like no matter how much I hated someone, I don’t know that I could act like that. I don’t. Could you?

Caitlin: I think what’s interesting about her is I think she looks older. Like, I would have put her in some of the older moms, but she’s not. She’s only 24 and she has three kids. She met her husband when she was 16 and he was 21. But I guess Utah has this. They call it a Romeo and Juliet law, which is a band for some reason. Got me. Is that where you like you guys? That wasn’t a story. That was like a suicide story. Exactly. No, it allows minors aged 16 to 17 to consent to activity with an adult as long as that adult is no more than ten years their senior. I thought we kind of had something like with five or so. Ten is.

Sharon: Ten is a lot.

Caitlin: Ten’s a range because especially when you’re like, looking at someone who’s 16.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And okay, so maybe she is immature. Like, she had to become a mom at 16. She got married probably that young. Oh.

Sharon: Because she actually got pregnant. 16.

Caitlin: uh-huh

Sharon: But yeah, that’s really.

Caitlin: So she may just be really immature. And now that you say that, I think that shines a lot of light on who she is.

Sharon: I feel really bad because there’s something about her I found very unlike and I really. And then towards the end, I kind of felt bad for feeling that way.

Caitlin: But I still.

Sharon: There’s something I don’t like about her.

Caitlin: And it’s just they didn’t give her enough of an edit to make her like she was a friend. She got a friend of edit.

Caitlin: And then they never wrapped anything up or gave us anything more deep on her. She. It was like she just didn’t exist. Except for then they’d throw her in a moment, so you’d be like, oh, I mean, that’s the ghost thing. Yeah, it’s like, oh, Mikayla’s there. Yeah, she just floated for a second like she was invisible. And then, except there was stuff they couldn’t edit her out of. And then it would be like, wait, wait, who is she? Oh, oh, it’s Mikayla. And I just, it felt like maybe you made your cast too big if this is what you have to do to some, like Layla and Mikayla, especially. Oh, the Aylas. The Aylas are invisible.

Sharon: I kind of wanted her to show us what’s wrong with her skin.

Caitlin: I really wanted to see that. I think that would have been the one moment.

Sharon: Well, because otherwise, it’s like, we hear you’re like.

Caitlin: And it was confusing because at first it was just like, was that the same person?

Sharon: And you’re like, is she okay? And then I was also like, is this really true happening? And it probably is.

Caitlin: I think it is that they never.

Sharon: Yeah, it’s like, she just looks like a normal person, which, yeah, I know people suffer and look normal, but, yeah, I’m like, they should have given us her story at some point because she.

Caitlin: Even said, and this kind of makes sense to me, but in Us magazine, she said, I was filming during that time, like, when her skin wasn’t going well and she wasn’t feeling good, and so I would go. I would be crying on the way to filming and being like, oh, my gosh, I look so horrible. And then I would get there and not be fully present, and it’s like, I kind of got that feeling too, because maybe she didn’t even know what her angle was. Her story was her end. she was maybe just going through too much, that she was confusing. And then she joked, like, maybe I’ll be the villain in season two if you come back. If she comes back. But now I want to see. I kind of enjoy seeing someone try to be the villain and not making it. That’s fun, too. That is.

Sharon: It’s like, oh, so cute. But no one cares what you thought.

Caitlin: Or you continue to be mad about that. So I think I can handle that. do you think she’ll be back?

Sharon: I don’t know.

Caitlin: It kind of depends on who else comes back.

Sharon: I think if she could bring the drama with the skin. Like, if they start going into backstories, right? If they’re not gonna go into backstories. I don’t think so.

Caitlin: And if you’re not gonna show us the other husbands, even if they aren’t as interesting, we can’t get a full picture, because I don’t think they’re gonna show us the kids much, and I’m okay with that. But then you’ve got to show us the husband, because, again, it’s mom talk. It’s not like, I mean, the family is the center of this.

Sharon: Supposedly.

Caitlin: Supposedly, it’s Utah.

Sharon: I mean, maybe that’s the whole point, is that supposedly the family is the center of this culture, but really, they don’t want it to be. They want to be out dancing.

Caitlin: Yeah. Now it just feels like that little town in footloose. Like, were the Mormons not allowed to dance? So then this TikTok is dumped. Maybe that’s what they think the rebellion is. It’s the dancing.

Sharon: The dancing. Yeah, the dancing rebellion.

Caitlin: Yep. Okay. So there isn’t really a winner in the victorian ghost.

Sharon: There are no winners here.

Caitlin: There’s no winners here. Nope. Let’s talk a little bit about the mormon church response, because I found it interesting. So, this is in the Salt Lake Tribune, but they were going through and saying that there hadn’t been any comment from the Mormon church on Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. And then there was some sort of, fx Hulu series under the banner of heaven.

Sharon: Okay. I’ve read the book under the banner of heaven.

Caitlin: Okay.

Sharon: It’s by John Krakauer, and it’s a really good book, and I remembered pieces of it. yeah, I’d recommend it somewhat more about the fundamentalist polygamy side. Yeah, those are the parts I remember. But, yeah, so I guess they made a series.

Caitlin: Yeah. Well, so it’s interesting. So there was no comment on that. and then the only other thing that they ever commented on, I guess, was, remember the book of Mormon musical? They said, like, okay. They said, in essence, they said, like, you’ve seen the play, now go read the book.

Sharon: That’s actually funny.

Caitlin: That is really clever. I feel like they spent a long time honing that, and good for them. But I guess they published a commentary last week on. Not last week, but whenever this article was done, on this, they said that some portrayals are fair and accurate, but others resort to stereotypes or gross misrepresentations that are in poor taste and have real life consequences for people of faith. So I do think it’s just really interesting that they came out and, because this one felt the need to say something. It is trashier, but they were more, it felt like they were more scared of this one. Or do you just think it’s the sheer volume of coverage that mormonism seems to be getting right now?

Sharon: Well, here’s the thing. I feel like, okay, on housewives, Salt Lake City, that was a more deep look at, ah, personal feelings. Religion.

Sharon: Family.

Caitlin: It was multiple religions. Yeah.

Sharon: And so that was more like a deeper thing. I think this is easier to say, this isn’t us. It’s just a bunch of women dancing and being obnoxious. It’s easier to be like, okay, well, they’re not really.

Sharon: I think with Heather and them, they’d have to actually really go in and acknowledge what she said in her book to write stuff, which is some pretty heavy stuff.

Caitlin: Yeah. And maybe it’s easier just to say. Cause they go on to say. A number of recent productions depict lifestyles and practices blatantly inconsistent with the teachings of the church. Others irresponsibly mischaracterize the safety and conduct of our volunteer missionaries. I felt like that was it, Heather. Such portrayals often rely on sensationalism and inaccuracies that do nothing fairly and fully reflect the lives of church members or the sacred beliefs that they hold dear. and it was interesting because this, communications professor at the, like, Utah Valley University was saying that it’s kind of a lazy argument, saying that church members are more diverse than they give them credit to be. And it was interesting because it goes back to that Lisa Barlow Mormonism thing. Like, we are trying to categorize them so much to fit into this thing. And I guess I always did it growing up too, because I thought, no caffeine, no all these. So all of this sort of secretive stuff is kind of surprising to me. And I do think it’s interesting because it sort of feels like there’s clearly like a fight inside the church. And this is often, you know, like when churches split, where it’s like the more pious and then the people who kind of want to bring it into the modern era and update it a little bit. And do you think, like, the Mormon church is heading into that? Do they want to update, like, do they want to move forward? Do they want to continue to hold where they are? Like, it does feel like all of these are shows are coming out at a time and I’m sure they’re building on each other because they’re famous and the one got it. So the other. But does it highlight that maybe something needs to change or is going to change? And it’s interesting because it’s kind of a sign of the times, I think.

Sharon: So, I mean, if they want to keep people on the rolls, they’re going.

Caitlin: To have to change. Yeah. That was from the Salt Lake Tribune and it was Peggy Fletcher stack. It was a really interesting article because she went through and talked about all these things and talked to different people. Yeah, that’s interesting because obviously we’re trying to, you know, within these shows, trying to capitalize on it.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: But then they also are capitalizing on their own faith in certain ways.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: Because Heather’s making a lot of money off the book.

Sharon: Because if these women weren’t Mormon, would we care?

Caitlin: I don’t know.

Sharon: I don’t think they weren’t supposed to be these perfect little women. Like.

Caitlin: No. Because what did they dandel at that point?

Sharon: There’s a few women that danced and one of them kissed someone. She didn’t even sleep with them.

Caitlin: Exactly.

Sharon: They did not even actually.

Caitlin: No. And it’s a winner party if they didn’t have those rules that are so much stricter than average society. Let’s say you’re right. It wouldn’t be a discussion. So it’s interesting because it’s like we’re using it and they’re using it.

Caitlin: So we’re both using it for different but similar purposes. I don’t know. That’s interesting.

Sharon: It’s deep.

Caitlin: It’s very deep. So next we are going to head on to the Rojaswise of Dubai. But, also Salt Lake is dropping soon. New York is dropping. Potomac is returning. And maybe we’ll try to do a little current season thoughts on those? Yeah, kind of want to, I think.

Sharon: And then OC is still going.

Caitlin: And OC is still going. We gotta catch.

Sharon: We are right now. The next few months is pretty good.

Caitlin: It is. Because it felt like there was such a drought for a minute there. It did. And now I feel a little overwhelmed.

Sharon: So I know.

Caitlin: Maybe spread it out a little bit. Bravo. Some of us have to take care of our kids in the middle of all of this too. What are we supposed to do?

Sharon: It should be like the secret lives of mom. Bravo. Addicts like my kid hasn’t showered for.

Caitlin: They’re just showing them off. We’re just on the couch with our eyes. Well, that’s our story. Maybe we should have our own mom talk about that. Bravo talk.

Sharon: We need a mom talk.

Caitlin: Yep. All right. Well, that is our episode we’re wrapping now on this. We can now set the secret lives of Mormon wives to bed.

Sharon: Good.

Caitlin: Yeah, that’s kind of where they need to go, I think. I’m excited for season two, but it’s one of those things where it’s like, this was such a cultural phenomenon for the moment where it was and everyone was talking about it for two weeks, but I don’t know that it has the staying power.

Caitlin: Are people still gonna be talking about it in a month? I don’t know.

Sharon: Right. Cause now we know that they do this stuff, so it’s like, okay, so you drink soda.

Caitlin: Yeah. And, I mean, obviously we’ll watch the second season, but I don’t know whether it has the staying power to have multiple seasons. It’ll be interesting to see.

Sharon: They’re gonna have to, what do you call it? Get better quality characters.

Caitlin: They are. And like you said, the production has to kind of change how they’re handling it.

Caitlin: They need a different. It probably needs a different production company. That’s kind of mean to say, but I kind of feel like, it.

Sharon: Was a little boring by the end.

Caitlin: Yeah. Yeah. And that was only eight episodes. I mean, and I liked how short it was, and maybe that’s not a good sign.

Sharon: And they had a lot of women, too.

Caitlin: They did so to. Yeah. Because, I mean, honestly, when you think about all the. It took us just to kind of condense it. Yeah, it took us a lot to condense it. And yet they were able to condense it into eight episodes. That’s not a great sign.

Caitlin: That’s interesting. All right, well, remember, Mormon wives allegedly bring the drama.

Sharon: We actually bring the receipts.

Caitlin: Very good.

Sharon: Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please hit the subscribe button. If you’d like to help support us, please share it with others and leave a rating and review. Also, visit us on Instagram and Twitter, both h on RH for fun pictures and polls, or email us at rh on rhpodcast@gmail.com. thanks again, and remember to stay out of the shade.