The Weight of Beautiful book cover

We discuss Jackie’s struggles, and our own, with body image and eating issues in the brand new book, “The Weight of Beautiful,” from Real Housewives of New Jersey’s Jackie Goldschneider, Season 13.

Episode 45 on Spotify

Episode Transcript (generated by eddy.headliner.app)

Caitlin: I want to do this book justice.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And not like, I don’t want to, like Chandler Bing. It like, I don’t want to get uncomfortable and then make bad comedies. You have to stop me when I get giggly in therapy. You’ll be like, be serious.

Caitlin: You hi, this is Caitlin,
Sharon: and this is Sharon.

Caitlin: And welcome to real housewives on real housewives, where we unravel housewives story threads and keep the tea flowing.

Caitlin: So chic.

Caitlin: Hold on to your reading glasses. This book is about eating disorders; it’s very serious

Caitlin: Today we’re digging into the white of beautiful, a book by Jackie Goldschneider from real housewives of New Jersey, season 13. Um, in her own words, she says, this is my story. But it is also the story of millions of people like me suffering in silence and striving to lead healthy, happy lives in recovery from eating disorders. My story is for all of us.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: So that kind of gives our little warning, because this is about eating disorders. Um, it’s a beautiful book, but it’s more serious than the books we are used to doing, so hopefully we can do it justice.

Caitlin: It’s a very serious book, but it was very good.

Caitlin: But it was it was well written. The book was written for 2023 and came out on Tuesday

Caitlin: Let’s jump in and talk about it.

Sharon: Okay.

Caitlin: Wait, what year was this written?

Caitlin: No, I asked that to share it in all seriousness.

Caitlin: It literally came out came out, like, Tuesday, 26 February.

Caitlin: It was for 2023.

Caitlin: We’re like, it was written on Tuesday. Caitlin, I better go look it up really fast.

Caitlin: Oh, wait, it was this week. All right, so this book just dropped. Um, I haven’t seen a lot of the press out about it because I didn’t really want to mhm feel swayed, um, one way or the other. But she’s had a lot of things online, and it seems like it’s going well.

Sharon: Good. This book is about Jackie’s struggle with anorexia

Caitlin: All right, what is the best part?

Caitlin: What did you like about this book?

Caitlin: The hot tea?

Caitlin: Well, in addition to just knowing more about Jackie, I liked a lot of the references to things when I was a teenager. It just brought me back. Um, like, she said she’s talking about the popular girl at school, steph, and she said she must have smelled good. Also, she probably wore something trendy like CK one. And then she says the stores at the mall were for skinny girls, especially the worst store in the whole world. Five, seven, nine.

Caitlin: I hadn’t given that store a second thought until I read this.

Caitlin: When I heard that, I was like, oh, my God, I remember that store. And I remember thinking, wow, it’s only for those sizes. And that’s it. And I always thought it was kind of bizarre.

Caitlin: It is bizarre.

Caitlin: You’re really excluding a lot of a lot of shoppers. Doesn’t seem like a good business.

Caitlin: No, I don’t know. No, it is funny, because I do think it was, like, a lot of our childhood in kind of a way. I mean, she’s older than us, but, like, very similar things.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: Um, I have some more things, but what are some of yours?

Caitlin: Um, well, for one, I did think it was really beautifully written. It’s very honest, it’s very heartfelt. Um, I’ve never had anorexia, but I’ve dieted. And so I recognized kind of like, when she was talking about that fat girl and her who wanted to be liked by the men. And then it was interesting because she talked so much about being overweight and about the anorexia compared to some books that I’ve read. Um, it made me think a lot of because I read Unbearable Lightness by Portia de Rossi, which is, like, her struggle with anorexia. Um, and she struggled with more. The anorexia part. It was interesting with Jackie because I feel like she covered both ends of the spectrum. And for me, I’ve put on quite a lot of, like, I’m more on that side of it, but I’ve dieted a lot, and so I could kind of see those losing patterns and the things she talked about and the things she obsessed about. I really related to a lot of that. Um, and there were parts of it that I got a little choked up, because it’s like, why can’t we be happy with our bodies? When she just said, all I want to be is normal, I want to eat normally. And like, oh my God, I’ve wanted that my whole life. I see other people and they just eat something and they stop, or they reach a certain weight and they’re like, oh, I got to come back down a little bit. Why are some of us so hardwired to not be able to stop at the extremes or just to struggle so much with it? Like, it’s such a fight.

Caitlin: Yeah, there was a quote in there where she said she looked around, she’s like, why does everyone else have so much self control? Or something like that. She’s thinking about herself.

Sharon: Mhm.

Caitlin: And it was an interesting thing because I’ve thought that about different things. Look around you’re. Like, how does everyone else do this so perfectly or so normal in this?

Caitlin: And I really felt like I understood that. And it was interesting when she said anorexia was about control, like, it was the one thing that she could control. And I thought that was really interesting, because I guess I don’t always think about it in that term, but that is what it is.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And I did find it fascinating that it’s like, well, she had been overweight, so it wasn’t just a fear of, like, well, I could look back. She truly had been overweight. And she was scared of just going out of control. Yeah, it was just out of control. Uh, and ending up back there. And that’s what made it so much harder, I think, because she actually had been there and she could actually see going back there, right?

Caitlin: Yes. Versus the normal fear was even it was both irrational in a way, but also a little bit rational. And that’s what made it worse. She says at one point, I’ll figure it out one day how to look more like them and less like me. That broke my heart a little bit.

Caitlin: And you know what’s sad? We all showed those pictures of her when she was a kid. And she did. She had this chubby little face and she was cute, cute kid. It was really cute. I know.

Caitlin: And it is hard when you’re looking from the outside.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Caitlin: You can see it. And it’s so sad when a person can’t see how beautiful they are, because mhm really, everybody’s beautiful. And it’s just that we all get in our own heads. It’s so funny that there’s this part of us in our own minds that can both be a part of us and also a part of us that’s kind of like lying to us, mhm and not giving us the whole story. And it’s so interesting because you think every part of you is you, and every thought that you have is your thought, and so it must be the truth. And it’s interesting when you kind of see how so many of these things, like, in the extreme like this, because we all do it in bits, mhm about how you can just lie to yourself. And it’s scary because I think to.

Caitlin: Myself I truly don’t think I lie to myself about anything.

Caitlin: I mhm think we all think that.

Caitlin: Do we all think that? No, I really think I’m like, no, I know you guys lie about stuff, but I don’t lie about stuff.

Caitlin: So I do parts work in therapy with my therapist. And sometimes it’s like she’ll say, well, that part is just a part of you. But it’s like, there’s a part of me that I kind of like I’m like, no, she’s wrong. It’s like there’s a part of you that feels more like you than any of the and I know what she’s saying. I know she’s saying that all these parts of you and they protect you in different ways. But it’s like, there’s always this one that I’ll hit up against, and I’ll be like, except for that one. That one’s telling me the truth.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: Uh it’s like, why do we have this part of our brain? I know it protects us, but it goes to the extreme sometimes.

Caitlin: Yeah. Um oh, one of my other favorite things was this line where Teresa was talking about Evan cheating. And Teresa tells Jackie M. I’m a confident person. You’re not. I like hanging out with confident people. And Jackie says, did you get that confidence in. Jackie said she wanted to throw food and drinks on Teresa

Sharon: It? Love it.

Caitlin: Love it. And then in the same area, uh, talking about this interaction, jackie said she felt like throwing the platter of spaghetti all over Teresa’s head. And all I could think is, like, I have wanted to hurt people. But I’ve never wanted to throw food on them or drinks.

Caitlin: This seemed like more of a Jersey.

Caitlin: Thing, like m to throw food and drinks on people.

Caitlin: It is just that desire now I’m like, afraid I’m going to have it.

Sharon: I know I’m just going to be.

Caitlin: Sitting in their plate and you’re going to be like, put it down.

Sharon: One day.

Caitlin: I’m just going to get excited and check my Diet Dr. Pepper at you.

Caitlin: No, but see, then you know, you’d be sad because it would be gone.

Caitlin: Maybe our problem is that we, like, drink too much.

Caitlin: And so we’re like, don’t throw that plate.

Caitlin: Someone could eat that plate of pasta.

Caitlin: That’s terrible.

Caitlin: Why would you do that? Did you, um, have anything else you like that you wanted to add?

Caitlin: I think I’ll have some other things as we go through it, but that was my main. I’m worried that my kids are aware of my husband and I dieting

Caitlin: All right. Um, the worst part what didn’t she like about the book, the iced tea?

Caitlin: I really said no parts because so much of the book was good, even the parts that were hard. Um, but it was a hard book and it caused you to think about some hard things. One of the things that really got to me was when she was talking about how her parents talked about dieting, like her whole childhood. Mhm and I thought a little bit like I was aware of my mom dieting mhm as a kid. And it was like trying to think. I wonder how that shaped me. I’m worried that my kids are aware of my husband and I dieting and is that going to shape how they view food? And that scares me a little. Um, my littlest is so good at self monitoring what he eats. And we’re always joking because we’re like, how did he out of all of us, how is he the one that got that ability to understand where that line is? Because the rest of us don’t have a clue.

Caitlin: Mhm?

Caitlin: And it’s like, I don’t want to set my kids up for failure, but you want to be healthy in your own life. And it’s like, how do you figure that out without your kids catching on? I guess that you’re doing these things or that scared me. I don’t want my kids to have this messed up dynamic around food because I’ve fought with food and how do you not carry that forward? Yeah, I don’t know.

Caitlin: It is interesting. I honestly believe and this is especially today with all the medications, I honestly believe in 20 years, no one will be overweight anymore.

Caitlin: That’s interesting.

Caitlin: And life might be totally different. Can you imagine?

Caitlin: No, I can’t. Because that just seems like something so many people have struggled with. I know. It’s been my struggle.

Caitlin: It’s such a big part of so much of society in life.

Caitlin: I know it does. I mean, I can think about how much probably of my mental energy. Mhm that has been expended. Thinking about that.

Caitlin: What will people will they find something else to worry about?

Caitlin: What’s the new hobby they’re going to get? I don’t know.

Caitlin: Um yeah, one thing with her parents, when her dad her dad would look back and laugh at how big she was because to him it was funny because now she’s skinny.

Caitlin: Yes. It’s like she’d won the game.

Caitlin: Yeah. He didn’t really understand how hurt it’s like every time she looked back at that, she’s still hurt and she still was hurt by everything that happened.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Caitlin: She was still hiding from all that. Right. Um, so it really hurt me to hear that her dad was laughing and she’s like, he just doesn’t understand eating disorders.

Caitlin: Um, because it was interesting the way the book was written and the way you get into it. I felt like you saw this progression almost, of her fading away and getting lesser and lesser as you went further into the book. Like, you could just see more and more of her go away. Yeah. It was heartbreaking. And so then when he brings that back and then says, well, you won it’s like, at what cost?

Caitlin: Yeah, very much. Um, another part. This is just a sad part of the book. Fiona Apple went from curvy to stick thin in her book

Caitlin: So I’ll bring it up here. Her brother, who I don’t know if he has some sort of disability.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: She wasn’t clear about what um, but everyone at school made fun of him and they would have him dancing and doing stuff. And they were laughing at him, but he thought he was entertaining them when they’re really mocking him. Oh, that was so hard to read. And she said he was like the sweetest guy in the world.

Caitlin: I read somewhere online that, um, they were pretty close in age, but then he’d been held back too, so they ended up going to the same grade. And so they kind of felt like twins. M. And that’s one of the reasons that they were so close growing up.

Caitlin: Um oh, another thing. This is so weird. And this goes back to earlier. Yeah, one of her memories is one of my memories, too. Mhm she says, I laid eyes on the thinnest woman I think I have ever seen. Fiona Apple was 18 years old in the video for a song Criminal. Yeah, I remember that video. Mhm so 100% I remember wanting to be that skinny. That video 100% stuck with me. And I thought about it.

Caitlin: That’s interesting.

Caitlin: That’s so weird. Ah, how many lives did that video ruin? I know.

Caitlin: Yeah. I wouldn’t have pulled that video out. But you’re right. At that point, there was like a shift in what was beautiful and sexy. And it went from M being kind of curvy and voluptuous to that stick thin, no body fat image. Yeah, it’s interesting too, when she said I knew that at the point that she started I think it was doing Weight Watchers, but she kind of said, I knew that day I was starting something life changing. And what I didn’t know that there would be another day of my life when I wasn’t tortured by food, mhm? And it’s so scary because it is true. Once you kind of start down that road, mhm, it always kind of comes back to that in your mind. It is tricky as to how, uh, it’s so hard. So many of us have gone down this road and how do you come back to yourself happily and naturally and healthy? It’s just tricky because it’s like in a lot of ways she was trying to shed all that extra weight. And I think too, sometimes with gaining weight, sometimes you hide behind those protective walls of the weight too. It’s like you can use it either way. Um, and it’s like I remember too, when I got to I guess I call it my size four era. That was my Taylor Swift era. But I remember when I could put on a pair of size four pants around the time I got married. And it’s like I do remember being terrified to eat too much. I remember I was worried about things, about how many calories were on things, what was in if I went to a restaurant, it was like, how much was in this, how much was in that. And I didn’t think about it until I was reading it in her book. But it was like, yeah, I was terrified to eat, mhm, so no wonder this didn’t stay for me. It was too hard. I was too self conscious to I don’t know, you’re so aware of it. And then there’s a point at which you just almost either you go down the path she went down or you give up because it’s just too hard.

Caitlin: Yeah, I definitely agree.

Caitlin: I don’t know, it’s so hard that’s.

Caitlin: Like when I was a senior year of college, I found if I ate a bowl of Cheerios at like noon and then at like six, I ate uh, like a Weight Watchers meal, mhm. And that’s all I ate for the day for a semester. And my weight just stayed nice where I wanted it. And it was so beautiful. And I remember thinking to myself, like, I am so hungry and this is probably not healthy, but it was hot.

Caitlin: Or like I remember wanting to go out and eat whatever I wanted or like to go to the bars and stuff. I remember not eating all day. Yeah, like I wouldn’t eat because I was like, well, I’m going to eat at six.

Caitlin: Exactly. And then you get drunk and then yeah, also enough, you’d get even drunker.

Sharon: Because you didn’t eat.

Caitlin: Yeah. Um, and it really became her identity. And that’s what was so sad. It’s like her identity was that she didn’t have an identity. She was looked over, people ignored her.

Caitlin: That’s a really good point.

Caitlin: And that now she had this reason for people to look at her, and in society, it’s a good reason. And it’s like, even if she was too skinny, it’s something that she did well, because a lot of people can’t do that. She’s something a lot of people can’t.

Caitlin: That’s interesting. When you said that what she was doing was kind of wanting to be seen.

Sharon: Mhm.

Caitlin: And then sometimes I think with gaining weight, it’s like, I don’t want to be seen. M. So it’s sort of an interesting that there’s a part of you because you think that’s not really whatever I just eat, but there is so much more to it.

Sharon: Mhm.

Caitlin: Um, and then there was a line when she was going, I get help. And she says I think she’s at the eating disorder center. She says as she walked behind the nurse, she thought she didn’t look thin enough to be there.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Caitlin: And that was really interesting because it’s almost like, mhm she’s shaming herself for not being thinner or she’s not anorexic.

Caitlin: Enough, or she doesn’t it that one doctor she went to, and the nurse said, oh, are you here for an eating disorder?

Caitlin: You don’t look like you have an eating yeah.

Caitlin: And so she was like, oh, never mind.

Sharon: I’m not.

Caitlin: She’s like, oh, that makes sense, because that was in your chart, but I didn’t see that.

Caitlin: And I’m like and then she thought she was fat.

Sharon: Oh, my God.

Caitlin: I just saw everything in her just, like, crumple.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And it’s like, maybe she thought she didn’t deserve help unless she was at Death store, but I really don’t know where to go with that.

Caitlin: I do think that’s hard. It’s like that’s a whole other thing, is like asking for help. And at what point do you ask for help?

Caitlin: And it’s almost like she’s embarrassed to not be thinner when she’s asking for help.

Caitlin: Exactly. Everyone deserves help, right? Everyone deserves a chance. Yeah. Um, it really opened my eyes to eating disorders

Caitlin: Well, I don’t need this enough. And I think we all do that at certain times. I’m not bad enough. They’re worse off. So it’s like but everyone deserves help.

Caitlin: Yeah, exactly.

Caitlin: Everyone deserves a chance.

Caitlin: Um, it really opened my eyes to remembering with eating disorders, you can’t necessarily see how much of an eating disorder people have right.

Caitlin: Because you can’t see in their head.

Sharon: Right.

Caitlin: You can’t see in their head. You don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors. Yeah.

Caitlin: And you can’t just judge it by its cover. And I think it’s hard for people I think it’s really hard to take that step and say, I have a problem in any aspect. So if someone even hints that they do, I think you have to take it seriously.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Caitlin: Anytime that someone brings it up and not just go, well, I’m looking at you and I think you’re fine.

Caitlin: Yeah, exactly.

Caitlin: Think about it. Like when your kids, they bump their toe into something and it’s like they want you to go. Oh, is it okay?

Sharon: Let me look.

Caitlin: Let me kiss it. They don’t want you to go.

Caitlin: Whatever.

Caitlin: You’re fine. That’s not even the hard part of the floor. Nobody wants that. You can’t treat anybody.

Caitlin: Yeah. How long did it take you to finish the book

Caitlin: Um, how long did it take you to finish the book?

Caitlin: Um, about 5 hours. I read pretty quickly.

Caitlin: That’s what I wrote to four to five.

Caitlin: Okay. Um, were there parts of the book you need to talk about?

Caitlin: Yeah, I actually have see, this is where I put a bunch of my stuff.

Sharon: Okay.

Caitlin: One thing I thought just was interesting, just from a house size perspective, so she hated being videotaped, and she always ran up and covered the lens. And it just made me think because we’d just done Melissa’s book. Melissa was the exact opposite. She told that whole story about how her whole life she wanted to be videotaped. She wanted to so she felt so comfortable on camera because she’d been on camera her entire life. And it was just so interesting to see those oppositional things. The Weight Watchers parts for me were reminiscent when I was in college

Caitlin: Um, the other thing that I wanted to talk a little bit about was like, the Weight Watcher parts for me were just so reminiscent because I remember first meeting I remember doing that when I was in college. I was so obsessed with doing it, and I did lose the weight. But when I would go visit my husband at college, like he was in Oregon, and I would go and find a Weight Watchers meeting there. Like, I went to weird churches, Weight Watchers meetings there. I went to the one that was next to the Trader Joe’s. I was that I’m going to keep up with it even if I was there for a weekend or when I would like to spend my jan term there. And yeah, uh, it’s like to think about to think about it now. It’s kind of like she was saying, too.

Sharon: Huh?

Caitlin: It’s someone so young and impressionable, and you’re taking them into these meetings and teaching them.

Caitlin: Mhm, I don’t know.

Caitlin: Uh, it’s interesting.

Caitlin: The Weight Watchers thing was fascinating to me because the first time okay, so she goes to Weight Watchers when her doctor she’s like a senior in high school. The doctor tells her, you don’t want to go to college, fat.

Sharon: Right?

Caitlin: Which is, oh my God, I know. And then he tells her to try Weight Watchers. And then she writes like, are you effing kidding me? I’ve been searching for this my whole life. The exact formula for being thin. I could follow directions, and I was going to do it, but then I was wondering so let’s say this. Kids today mhm, so she’s going into college. She didn’t really have the Internet as much.

Sharon: No.

Caitlin: So kids today would have had this mhm, they have this information now. Would she have had an eating disorder younger, do you think?

Caitlin: Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah, I mean, because it’s interesting. She said she had to carry the book. I remember when it wasn’t digital.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And you had to write it all down in little journals and you had to carry the little book. And I remember trying to figure out if I could put the book in my purse to go places.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And she said, uh, she felt like now she had the information. Yeah. Now today you can go online and get whatever plateau information you want it right.

Caitlin: That’s true. And the interesting thing too, it’s like I was a so pro Weight Watchers person and I don’t know, I guess I don’t know how I feel about them. But M, they have changed their formula a lot.

Caitlin: Uh huh.

Caitlin: Because I remember the first time I thought I was like, well, it’s math. Yeah, it’s like the math math, so we’re good. But it’s like they’ve changed a lot when she said it was like less than 1000 calories or something for some of those exchanges.

Caitlin: It’s like yeah. A lot of these vestiges from the old days where it’s like, you can’t eat ah fat.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: Because people worry about the images with kids. Like, everyone’s seeing all these images younger. But you’re right. What about the information, mhm, on how to dangerously diet younger? Is that going to be a huge problem?

Caitlin: And then my other question was and I guess I could look at today’s eating disorder rates. But yeah, with today there’s more of a body positivity movement. Does that, uh, counteract, would that have helped her or would that have been show up enough?

Caitlin: I don’t know. I do think there’s a lot more body positivity than there used to be, or like people showing what they look like without makeup online. And those kind of things that I don’t think existed when we were a kid. I can’t picture anything but kind of like knowing what the ideal was and.

Caitlin: That we should be the ideal.

Sharon: Right.

Caitlin: So maybe I guess I’m really banking some hope on the fact that that might change things.

Caitlin: Yeah, me too.

Caitlin: Because I could just see, too, these moments that she just sunk deeper and deeper into it. It’s like when she was on vacation.

Caitlin: And she had the tuna packet oh my God.

Caitlin: In the bathroom. And it was just like, oh my God. It’s just heartbreaking.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: Because it grosses you out and you’re like, you know, she didn’t want to do it. She couldn’t do it.

Caitlin: Yeah. And it’s that all or nothing thinking that everyone is always talking about. And it’s like, I always felt like I don’t think I could have kept up the level that she did, mhm, but it’s like, I remember recognizing that certain things would make me and I was always joking, like crazy, like running on a treadmill. I will start to count down the seconds. It makes me nuts. And like the calorie counting, it will be like I can’t focus on anything else.

Sharon: Right.

Caitlin: And so I can see these little flashes of like and to imagine the way she was and having to do that 24/7 when I get these little flashes of things but then I can.

Caitlin: Kind of flip it off a little bit better.

Caitlin: You can just see that disease just creeping in. And if you’re a hard worker and you have that drive behind you, it’s so scary how easy it is to feel like you’re succeeding at it when it’s becoming this dangerous thing.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And it’s this huge part of her life and I HM. The book is about how many people struggle with eating disorders

Caitlin: Wonder when you’re thinking of being a stay at home mom. M. You don’t always have much to distract you, right?

Sharon: Yes.

Caitlin: Man, if you want to distract sometimes I want to distract myself away from food because I’m a stay at home mom. Yeah. It seems like you can get deeper into stuff when you’re at home. I do think so.

Caitlin: Watching kids so like she said, COVID-19 having to stay home for that was a huge problem.

Caitlin: It was so sad. It was heartbreaking.

Caitlin: It was a really hard book and she was so honest. I mean, I know we asked that.

Caitlin: Question later but she was and at times it made me cringe because when you felt those things before and ah, you just cringe and it makes me feel so I imagine for her writing it was really cringey. And she did she wrote it know.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And I do think it’s like the like I’m going to compare it to Portia’s book again but it’s like I read Portia’s and it was also so heartbreaking and just so hard to read but so beautiful at the the same time. Because when someone’s that honest about their like you can’t help but think that’s really incredible. And that’s how I do feel about Jackie’s too. But again, what’s interesting with Jackie is that she’s just had both sides of the journey. She’s had the being overweight and she’s had the being underweight. And I just think there’s so much that I mean, all of us have most of us have struggled at some point in time with something. And you can relate to parts of her book, whether you have an eating.

Caitlin: Disorder or uh huh.

Caitlin: And that’s a really impressive way to.

Caitlin: Write a like definitely.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: What about you?

Caitlin: Um oh, so I have another kind of weird thought. Mhm.

Sharon: Okay.

Caitlin: If you think she were on Real Houses of Beverly Hills, do you think she would have had to hide it so much on another?

Caitlin: That’s interesting because you’re right, she was kind of staying with Jersey and because.

Caitlin: Jersey that we always said the women.

Caitlin: Seem to eat more.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And there’s more focus on food and family and those events that happen around the table.

Caitlin: Whereas I can kind of wonder where yolanda’s telling her daughter to just suck on a walnut.

Caitlin: I think there could have.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: That’s interesting.

Sharon: She.

Caitlin: Probably could have got away with it.

Caitlin: Or just not felt guilty about it.

Sharon: Mhm.

Caitlin: She would have felt like, well, she might have fit in more with that group, and that wouldn’t have been good for her.

Caitlin: And maybe she wouldn’t have gotten help because here they brought it up on TV.

Caitlin: Exactly.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: That’s really interesting.

Sharon: Um yeah.

Caitlin: What, um, makes the book unique?

Caitlin: I actually said it’s not unique, but I think that’s her point. In the beginning, she says, this is all of our story. This is lots of people’s story. And it’s about how many people struggle with eating disorders, and it’s a look into that world.

Caitlin: I know. I just said, well, it’s honesty, because I feel like of all the, um, housewives books that we’ve read, we have not read one yet that has the honesty that this one has.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And also, it was nice, just in kind of like our format here. It’s in no way a self help book. It’s an honest to goodness biography. It’s not like, this is how you recover and this is how I did it. It’s like, this is my story. And it may or may not. Parts of it may resonate with you parts of it. And that wasn’t the point. The point was just this is her story, and she’s had to hide so much for so long, and she’d like to be honest about it and get it out.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: It’s like she wants to show people, this is how I feel. If you felt that way, other people.

Caitlin: Have felt that way.

Caitlin: Exactly.

Caitlin: Just super, super honest about how her pregnancies and feeding her kids uh, she said the way some women miss wine or sushi when they’re pregnant was the way I missed anorexia it’s like she was just so honest about it and.

Caitlin: How deep of an issue it was.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Caitlin: And I can’t believe because she had how did I not know she had two sets of twins?

Caitlin: I didn’t know that either. I know.

Caitlin: I felt like I wasn’t we weren’t counting.

Caitlin: Well, here’s the thing. Since you have triplets, I think if it’s not triplets, we’re just like, oh, twins.

Caitlin: That’s easy. Thinking about pairing twins. Is it’s higher risk? Yeah, it is. And then her weight and her heart, and you think about yeah. Oh, man. It just scared me for her. Me too. I know she’s through it, but those parts I know.

Caitlin: Knowing that the kids give out okay. Made it better, but yeah, you’re right. It was a little anxiety producing. No one approached Evan about her weight in the book

Caitlin: Um, what surprised you in the book?

Caitlin: I was kind of shocked that no one approached her about her weight. And I was thinking, I wonder if that’s the difference between super thin versus super fat. Like, when you’re super fat, people will approach you about your weight. People will say, this is a problem. And so it’s concerning to me to think that when people are really, really thin, that just everyone doesn’t say anything about it because she kept saying, like, well, maybe if that doctor had said it evan didn’t say anything. My parents were like, Good job, you did. Just it helped her, really, to hide in plain sight. And she hid in plain sight. So not well, but it’s just what she did.

Caitlin: Mhm um, and she made sure because you do sometimes hear people go like, oh, they’re too thin, then they’re like, uh huh. But she said she made sure she wasn’t too too thin.

Sharon: Right.

Caitlin: It’s like she kept on those, like yeah.

Caitlin: I mean, it was such a she kept on the extra five pounds pregnant balance game.

Caitlin: And can you imagine the exhaustion of that? Mhm there’s certain things that you do, and you just I’m like, I’m tired because having to do this mentally is just such a race. And it’s like, that had to be for her, the counting and the balancing and trying to keep it just right. It’s exhausting. I can imagine, to keep all that.

Caitlin: Up in the air. This actually takes me back to something I need to talk about that I forgot

Caitlin: This actually takes me back to something I need to talk about that I forgot. Yeah. The failure of the medical profession, what I wrote down.

Sharon: Okay.

Caitlin: That’s what I was kind of thinking.

Caitlin: Of, first of all, saying you don’t go to college fat.

Sharon: Right.

Caitlin: Just the UN what do you call it?

Caitlin: Not, uh, sympathetic.

Caitlin: No, it’s completely but then the fact that no one paid attention to how thin she was, her heart rate’s in the run. Well, clearly she’s extremely thin. It’s like someone could have sometimes I feel like in the medical field, they’re so busy, and I think doctors are amazing. People in the medical field are but this happens. They’re so busy. It’s like a problem comes in. It’s not an acute problem. This has been a problem for a while, so it’s not necessarily my responsibility to address it right now because it’s been going on, and it’s a lot if I open that can of worms, big can of worms for me to open, then I have to deal with it. And I don’t necessarily know how to deal with it. That’s true. So we’re just going to kind of because weight loss, you can tell people like, okay, you got to lose weight. But this is a lot different. Mental illness.

Caitlin: It is completely different.

Caitlin: Mhm mental depression probably, in general, doesn’t.

Caitlin: Know how to deal with and it’s like the whole point is that she’s not going to eat. So you can’t just be like, and.

Caitlin: Now you need to eat.

Caitlin: Oh, I didn’t know that.

Caitlin: Thank you.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: Because I know, um, being a dietitian specializing in eating disorders is a thing, uh, I know in town, because I work with dietitians, there are some that do specialize. And, um, one of the dietitians lies in eating disorder. She told me she’s like, it’s hard for me. She’s like, they know as much about food as I do. They probably know more about food than I do.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: Because it’s not about the food necessarily.

Caitlin: That’s true.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: No, that’s interesting. It’s really a whole other thing you’re dealing with and not like, yeah, should I eat an orange or not? That’s not really the point.

Caitlin: When I’m doing diabetes education, they’re like, Can I eat too many carrots? Yeah, eat the carrots.

Caitlin: Fine.

Caitlin: There’s another issue here.

Sharon: Yeah. Clearly, she’s suffering from anorexia, but she’s hiding it

Caitlin: Um, I also thought it was kind of interesting, um, when she talked about how she and her sister because at that one reunion she threw out well, that she and her sister were estranged. And I remember being like, what? And she just sort of said, like, they just always fought their whole life. They’ve never gotten along, and they just drifted and drifted and drifted.

Caitlin: And she didn’t bring her up.

Caitlin: I don’t know if she’s yeah, it.

Caitlin: Was just okay, that’s it. And it made me sad because it made me scared because my kids fight. And you always hope that kids are.

Caitlin: Going to work it out.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: They’re going to love each other later.

Sharon: Right?

Caitlin: What if they don’t?

Caitlin: She loved her brother a lot.

Caitlin: She loved her brother, but her brother was really nice. Yeah, exactly. Um, as far as what surprised me, I said, I didn’t know she went to law school. I didn’t know she was a writer.

Caitlin: No, that she had that freelance journalism.

Caitlin: Career that was really and all those websites.

Caitlin: So that was really awesome.

Caitlin: Yeah. And then I laughed because I’ve related to this. She said, I wish there were one of those people who, when they lost their appetite, when they were anxious and felt the weight of the world on their shoulders, because mhm, I always think that to myself, man, m. Why can’t I not eat when I get stressed? And it’s one of those things the grass is always greener on the other side. Clearly, she’s suffering.

Caitlin: It’s like, to be clear, as people who have struggled with weight gain, we’re not saying that this is the right they all have their own problems. That’s the lens.

Caitlin: We’re seeing it.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: You see it through that lens. And she thought that too.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: Well, it’s just interesting how skewed your lens can be, because from the outside, we’re looking at all this stuff and it’s like she snapped at Evan when he was saying to her, well, you eat little meals all day. That’s so healthy. And she thought he was calling her fat. And it’s like, from an outsider perspective, you’re like, well, he was. But it’s just so interesting how you can just not see that at all. Mhm and I thought it was cool, too. She really does stand up for herself throughout housewives. And when she’s talking about things with her husband and she’s not like this little wilting flower. I mean, she definitely still has a lot of her own personality behind things.

Caitlin: Yes, but a lot of it is so fake, and she knows fake it it’s a fake confidence.

Caitlin: So that’s what I mean. Like, the skewed there. And so many people are like, well, they were just so quiet. They never said anything. And it’s like, again, I think that was part of her persona and part of the, oh, I love eating gorton’s fish. All the like, look, I just had dessert when she was on that Wyoming trip or whatever with the women. It’s like, you can’t be Anorexic if you ate banana pudding.

Sharon: Right.

Caitlin: And she’s got to put on the show and never let people know what she was. She’s scared to be found out, which is another hard way to not only is she counting all this stuff my God. But she’s scared to be found out. Hiding and trying to yes.

Sharon: Mhm.

Caitlin: She said, Anorexia is self protection by way of self destruction. Um, and that was, like, what one of the therapists told her, and she said, but it feels like the perfect fix. Therapist said, and that’s why it’s so.

Caitlin: Hard to let go of.

Sharon: Mhm.

Caitlin: And I can see that because it’s like when I say there’s that part of me that I’m always like, I think it’s the rational part of me.

** Caitlin**: So it must be right.

Caitlin: And it’s like, I can see her doing that too, because what is everybody say? If you want to be thinner, you count calories. So you’re like, Well, I’m doing what everybody said to do. There’s just this part of you that can’t understand. That’s what I’ve been told. That’s what I’ve been told works, and it’s working. Your brain just then can’t go.

Caitlin: No, it’s.

Caitlin: Not.

Sharon: Yeah. Did reading this book change your view of the author or the franchise

Caitlin: Um, do you have any lingering questions.

Caitlin: After finishing this book? Actually, no, I don’t.

Sharon: Okay.

Caitlin: I want to know who the former housewife is they live near. She said Evan kept seeing that he didn’t want to be on the show.

Sharon: Right.

Caitlin: And there was all these cameras, and they live really close to a former housewife. She didn’t say who, and.

Caitlin: They died. Um, did reading this book change your view of the author or the franchise?

Caitlin: Um, I do think that it made me like her more, except that I always liked her. So, um, I think I still like her. Uh, I think I was really impressed by her writing skills, um, and all the work that you can see that she has done in therapy and with nutrition. It’s such a story of growth and change. Mhm and it’s just so honest. We always ask that other question, how honest? Obviously, she’s very honest.

Caitlin: Um, and I think it’s funny how, um, she talked about, like, well, on TV, you want to wrap up the story? So, like, at the end, she’s like, yeah, she admitted it. She gets help. She eats high screen with her kids on the show, and now it’s all wrapped up in a pretty bow. But she’s like she’s still working.

Caitlin: Uh, I know.

Caitlin: I do remember watching that. I remember that scene.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And I remember it was really tense. I remember being nervous for her. You could tell she was still kind of just putting on a show for.

Caitlin: The kids and that it was still hard.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And that’s so interesting that that was really the thing that happened. And you’re reading about it. I don’t know when we saw yes. Um, the book made me okay, so I like Jackie, but I just didn’t think too much about, like she was just kind of not so much on M my radar.

Caitlin: Well, that’s what we watched. She was the housewife, and then she was a friend of so this season.

Caitlin: She wasn’t as relevant to us. So I really enjoyed learning about her.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: Um oh, another thing I didn’t know I forgot to mention I didn’t know she was brunette.

Caitlin: Oh, that’s right.

Sharon: Because she looks so good as a blonde.

Caitlin: She looks like she should be it looks natural.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: I really love her blonde hair. And she looked beautiful as brunette, too.

Caitlin: I can’t picture her.

Caitlin: I can’t either. Um, but anyway, the book m made me mad at yeah. Yes. So teresa HM?

Caitlin: You’re not cool. Not you’re a really crappy no, she.

Caitlin: Was teresa’s a crappy person.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: I did not like the way she acted at all. Because when we were talking about that part with Evan where did I have that? In my notes somewhere.

Caitlin: But it’s like she really did M make up yeah. That he was cheating.

Caitlin: That he was.

Sharon: Cheating.

Caitlin: Uh, and then she pretended to apologize, and then she came back more harder with it.

Caitlin: Yes.

Caitlin: The only reason she dropped it is because basically there was this focus on she didn’t want to get called out for bad behavior.

Caitlin: And I want to be like, this is the like, I think take the things that are real on the show and deal with them. But bringing this stuff out of nowhere and now it kind of does make me question a lot of stuff. That Melissa rumor and the other yeah. Because it’s like, okay, how much can we trust Teresa? And then you’re messing with this woman who’s dealing with all this stuff, whose husband didn’t want to be on the show. And she said that multiple times with the rumor. She’s like, he didn’t even want to come on the show. Leave him out of this. Leave him out of just it really pissed me off.

Caitlin: That really made me feel bad for him because normally I would be like, okay, just say it’s not true. But then thinking about him and how.

Caitlin: He actually feels, and he was kind of like, I knew it.

Caitlin: Some people are going to actually believe this about me. I thought the COVID was beautiful. It looks beautiful on the digital cover

Caitlin: Um, should we judge the book by its cover? Yes, by its digital cover.

Caitlin: By its digital cover.

Caitlin: A little sad we don’t have the physical book inside.

Caitlin: So I thought the COVID was beautiful. It looks beautiful. She looks so well done, so pretty. So she’s wearing a white sweater. It’s just like her leaning on, like, a table white background. She looks soft and cozy, doesn’t she?

Caitlin: Mhm and she looks really pretty.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: No, it’s a beautiful cover.

Caitlin: It’s so simple.

Caitlin: Mhm, and it’s so effective.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And obviously the title, I think, is great.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: The weight will be wonderful.

Caitlin: It’s perfect. I was like, I wonder why no.

Caitlin: One’S thought of.

Caitlin: That title.

Caitlin: Um, was there a ghostwriter?

Sharon: No.

Caitlin: So I looked, and on the Bravo website in this June article, they said, um, she wrote the memoir without a ghostwriter, co writer or other collaborator. And she did it all from her desk at home. It was really important to write it myself, Jackie said, about her decision to write the book alone. I don’t think that anyone else could have captured the true raw emotion of.

Caitlin: What I felt, which is a really well written well, I was like, wow, she’s a really good writer. She’s a writer.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: She’s a legit writer. Um, okay. Real housewives.

Caitlin: Unreal housewives. I mean, it’s easy. It’s a thumbs up.

Caitlin: Yeah, definitely a two thumbs up. It was really good. Totally recommend it. It’s not like a happy book, but it has a good ending. But it’s kind of a weightier. Yeah, but that was a bad word.

Sharon: Sorry. Yeah.

Caitlin: No, it’s interesting. No, but it’s a harder read. But it’s not so depressing. It was a page turner and you were really into it. And it allows you inside of her head. And I think that that’s always really interesting because you could draw parallels to things in your own life. M, and it just helps you understand what people are dealing with, which I just always think makes everybody a better human being.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And then the pictures, seeing, um, how skinny she was before her wedding, it was terrible.

Caitlin: Oh, my gosh. Because honestly, I read the book, but I think you’re going to picture her like you picture on the show. Mhm, and when you see those pictures, all of a sudden you realize because I kind of kept going back to the oh, let’s think about her in the weight gain, because that’s where I come from. But when I saw those pictures, it was just like, wow, this is such a disease that does need people to understand more. Mhm because she was just wasting away to nothing.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And even when on the show, before she got help, because I remember I told you after she had gained weight mhm the last season, I said, oh, my God. I didn’t realize how much better she would look. I thought she looked skinny and great, but she really looked healthier. But she said that that hurt her. When people are like, you look healthier. Jackie writes about her battle with anorexia in a new book

Caitlin: She could hear it. But it was weird because when I saw that, I was like, wow, you really do. So it looks so much more.

Caitlin: I know, because I want to say.

Caitlin: To her, like, in this cover, and.

Caitlin: As we see you now, I mean, she’s gorgeous, and I think she looks great.

Caitlin: I know.

Caitlin: Kind of weird. Yeah.

Sharon: Okay.

Caitlin: I wanted to read the last paragraphs of the book. It kind of, like, ends on hope, I think. Um, it said, learning to eat was only part of the battle. It was only a fragment of true recovery. Learning to accept myself regardless of what the world thought of me was the other part. Once I realized that true recovery began, I finally understood that I’d never get past my eating disorder until I stopped looking for validation from the outside, in other people’s opinions of my body, in the flashing numbers on the scale, in a stupid tag that hung on the inside of my pants. All of it was meaningless. All of it kept anorexia there and waiting in case I needed it again. It took me 46 years to love myself unconditionally and to understand that true freedom is not caring about what other people think of you. That happiness can’t be added up and measured in a notebook, that you can’t run your way toward acceptance, that skin and bones does not make you special. It took me a lifetime to realize that beauty has no weight. There is no weight of beautiful. There is just me.

Caitlin: Mhm.

Caitlin: It’s really nice.

Caitlin: It’s really pretty.

Sharon: All right.

Caitlin: Thank you, Jackie.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: Good read, Jackie. Good job.

Caitlin: Yeah, I just think it’s a hard topic, and she handled it, so all right. RHS podcast thanks you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe

Caitlin: All right, well, I feel like our.

Caitlin: Regular outfit is a little weird. We’re going to bring the receipts of what that’s just, like, weird.

Caitlin: All right. Um, let’s see. How about remember, we read the book.

Caitlin: So you didn’t have to, but we.

Caitlin: Want you to read this book. We want you to read this.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: This isn’t like the other ones I’ve read. Good job, Jack.

Caitlin: Good job. Let’s just go back to the two thumbs up. Read her book. It. Is beautiful.

Sharon: Bye.

Caitlin: Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please hit the subscribe button. If you’d like to help support us, please share it with others and leave a rating and review. Also visit us on Instagram and Twitter, both at RHS. Score RH for fun pictures and polls, or email us at rhonrhpodcast@gmail.com. Thanks again, and remember to stay out of the shade.