Ice with episode title

Say what you will about Monica, but giving her a snowflake made for an iconic season! And, thank you for NOT giving her mom a snowflake.

In this episode, we discuss Monica Garcia storylines from Real Housewives of Salt Lake City season 4:

⚪Monica vs LD ⚪Monica vs Heather ⚪Monica vs the Cast

Episode 68 on Spotify

Caitlin: What’s your burner account name?

Sharon: I need one.

Caitlin: I know.

Caitlin: What do we do if this one doesn’t work? We need this.

Sharon: Yes.

Caitlin: See, I could have the legitimate one, and you could go on Instagram with a burner account one and then just say really nice things under a regular one. God, I love this podcast. It’s changed my life. It’s caused me to lose weight. I now make so much more money than I made before. I listened to this podcast.

Sharon: It so much that I can afford to join their Patreon.

Caitlin: And I have, like, 25 memberships on the Patreon. You could have more than one.

Sharon: Oh, I never even thought of that.

Caitlin: I don’t know if you can.

Sharon: Or you could just send us money.

Caitlin: I mean, that’s fine, too. Hi, this is Caitlin.

Sharon: And this is Sharon.

Caitlin: And welcome to real Housewives on Real Housewives, where we unravel housewives story threads and keep the tea flowing so chic. Hold on to your snowflake.

Sharon: This week we’re digging into Monica Garcia Vontes, from the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City.

Caitlin: Season four, the verses this week or the Vantes? This week is Monica versus her mom, Monica versus Meredith, and Monica versus the cast. So Monica Garcia is the new cast member this season. She’s mom to four girls, and she’s portuguese and colombian. She founded Bria Baby, a blanket company. She’s the same age as Sharon. You guys have the same birth year. I guess I didn’t know where her age landed. I, don’t know whether this surprises me or not, but just.

Sharon: And we both have four kids.

Caitlin: That’s true.

Sharon: She looks a lot better than me, but she’s had plastics her.

Caitlin: Do you have a burner account that we need to talk about?

Sharon: We do.

Caitlin: Okay.

Caitlin: She was married, but she had an affair with her brother in law and got excommunicated from the Mormon church.

Sharon: I gotta talk to you about this affair. We’ll talk about it in a.

Caitlin: Okay. Okay.

Caitlin: She was an assistant to Jen Shaw, and she turned witness for the federal government in the fraud case against Jen. Okay, let’s put this under our first season judgment. Okay, well, I gotta.

Sharon: Before I start my judgment.

Caitlin: Yes.

Caitlin: Okay.

Sharon: When she talks about the affair, I thought the affair had just happened.

Caitlin: No.

Sharon: And then at one point, you find out it happened years ago. so I thought it happened, like, eight years ago or something. I look online, it ended in 2011. The way she talks about it. Yeah, it was a recent thing.

Caitlin: Okay, so my question, and this kind of goes under the first do, you think that her honesty about the affair and all these things that, again, weren’t recent, like you said, was that just smoke and mirrors for people to look the other way and not notice any of the reality Vonte stuff. Because she was like, I’m being so honest, I’m so open, I’m so truthful, I’m so available. My life is an open book.

Caitlin: Except for the part that’s really, really close and locked over there.

Sharon: Yes, exactly. And I do think she liked that. It got her attention.

Caitlin: Uh-huh.

Sharon: Because she was trying to be like the. Okay, have you ever seen that? There’s this Reddit thread. It’s like, not like the other girls where all these girls are like, yeah, oh, I don’t like lipstick in this. And they.

Caitlin: Some girls, it’s like being different makes cooler.

Sharon: I think they’re all cool and better than everyone else. And I kind of got the feeling.

Caitlin: She’S like, well, she did kind of take that vibe and run with it.

Sharon: You know what I did? I had an affair 18 months.

Caitlin: And I think she kind of thought it would like also.

Sharon: And I’m poor’s approval.

Caitlin: Yeah. Because Heather also was sort of like ex. Well, not really excommunicated, but Heather was also kind of like separating from the Mormon church. So I think she kind of thought it would bond her with them.

Sharon: I think it’s that thing where you try to make yourself like, what do you call it? It’s not the suffering Olympics, but it’s ish.

Caitlin: Huh?

Caitlin: It is.

Sharon: It’s like, I, am not your typical Olympics.

Caitlin: Right? It’s like a one.

Sharon: How different from you can I be?

Caitlin: Not in the norm.

Sharon: Right? I can pretend like you guys think I’m not as good, even though no one ever said, monica, you’re not as good as. She acts like they act that way and they don’t start. Okay, I’m getting really.

Caitlin: No, it kind of reminds me of, like, when Kourtney Kardashian went into all of the gothic look stuff. I’ve always been goth. I’ve always been so.

Sharon: Really?

Caitlin: Or did you just kind of pick up on that and it’s kind of like, Monica with this. Have you really always been this? Do you really say this to everybody you meet? Or does it have a purpose? here I’m so different that that makes me better. Exactly. But I also think that she has that vibe of, I’m going to put it out there and hurt myself before you couldn’t come for me and hurt me, too.

Sharon: Hm.

Caitlin: Hurt people hurt people, Shay. That made us laugh.

Caitlin: Exactly.

Caitlin: Do not call in with your personal trauma or emotion suffering Olympics.

Sharon: God. Get out of here.

Caitlin: Mix.

Sharon: You know what the last guy told me?

Caitlin: This is why we’re trying so hard for our children to share their feelings, but why it exhausts us and we have to go scream in a corner by ourselves because it’s a lot when people share everything. Okay, what is our first season judgment of Monica.

Sharon: So in the beginning, I actually, in spite of everything I said, about which I totally believe, I still loved her. In spite of it.

Sharon: And I thought she was gorgeous. She’s so I liked even her crazy talking heads looks.

Caitlin: Yes. And I liked that she was different from the other women. And I liked that initially until she sort of came for other people as them being rich was then a huge problem. Initially, I kind of enjoyed when she was talking about I have to go buy the purse. And it caused her to cry. But she didn’t want the other women to think that she didn’t have the money that they had. And initially I thought, okay, that’s kind of a refreshing side. Then she flipped it and came for everybody about having, see, that’s when it drove me a little bit nuts.

Sharon: The purse thing made me laugh hysterically because Andy, I remember when Andy said the thing was at the reading where he’s know, that was a real touching moment where I think a lot of women could identify with you. I was like, I couldn’t because I still can’t go buy, still can’t afford that purse. You couldn’t afford it, but you somehow obtained it. I am not going to go spend.

Caitlin: You know what I mean? It is true. Again, it was kind of smoke and mirror.

Sharon: You still got the purse?

Caitlin: Uh-huh.

Caitlin: Yeah. Right.

Sharon: I don’t know. And it’s like you could have bought it secondhand.

Caitlin: Or it’s like everyone’s saying like, oh, her house is small on her house, but it’s like you don’t know what the price of that actually is.

Sharon: Yeah, I thought that because no one, I think if she wouldn’t have been so dramatic about it, if she was just like, you know what? It, I’ve kind of felt insecure. So I went and bought this purse and this is all about me. Those other ladies aren’t making me feel bad. It’s all on me. But she made it seem like they were mean girls and they were.

Caitlin: And that’s, I was with her until then. She kind of took a, I mean, Monica’s interesting because now that there’s been a little space and a little time. I feel a little bit better about her.

Caitlin: But I’m still, I don’t know. I don’t know how I feel.

Caitlin: See?

Caitlin: Let’s see how we feel at the end of this. Okay, let’s talk about Monica versus her mom. Who’s ld do you know? Her mom’s twitter handle is ld millionaire, which I think says a lot about her mom.

Sharon: What is her name again? Linda.

Caitlin: Okay.

Caitlin: I don’t know what the d stands for. I think it’s her last name. Monica and her mom have a really messed up relationship. That’s what I wrote for background.

Sharon: Yes, I think that sums it up.

Caitlin: I think that sums it up. But it wasn’t. I don’t know if it was an interesting dynamic. It was a painful Much. It’s interesting the way that it comes out because it’s like there’s this nice little thing and oh, here’s her mom and she lives near her and she’s with the kids and Monica had a rough time with her dad, but her mom’s there. And then it’s like we just see.

Sharon: All these crack, crack, crack, crack, crack, crack, cracks.

Caitlin: They go to the senior center and Monica is explaining how her mom thought the call dropped and she called Monica a piece of b word and that she hated her and she can’t stand her. And her mom laughs about that. And that was the first time I was kind of like, okay, that’s not. And then there’s a part of you going, well, maybe that was misrepresented. We sort of let that go. But then when we get to, you just, you really see it. And that one’s even weird too, because I can see why the other women not seeing all the other stuff that we’ve seen just think that Monica is so rude to her mom.

Caitlin: Right?

Sharon: I could see how so in that scene, I could feel like I felt bad for Monica because I could feel her frustration, but I could see how the other women would perceive it, didn’t.

Caitlin: Understand it at all. Yeah, it was very clear what they were seeing versus we’d seen a little bit more, but we still hadn’t seen the full effect of it all.

Caitlin: Monica says to her mom, I don’t believe you when you say that. I’m your concern. They have this huge discussion at the mexican restaurant that’s really, really awful. And I think the biggest thing is we don’t have to go into all what she did and what she said. But I think that the takeaway is that her mom just really does all these things and says all these things and then presents it completely differently. And that’s where there’s a lot of people saying, like, well, maybe Monica is also really bad or whatever, but her mom was the adult and her mom taught her. And if Monica’s reacting any certain way or acting any certain way, we know.

Sharon: Who she learned from.

Caitlin: And it’s like, I don’t love parents being blamed as a parent. It’s like. And now I’m like, I don’t want all the blame on me when everything goes wrong. But there’s a part of you that will be on you and you still have to. Like, her mom made choices, but she left her with a family in Pennsylvania and went to chase her dreams. And then her mom argues all these little things, and it’s like, you can argue the little things, but there is such a narcissistic side to her mom that you can just see because the measure of control when she takes the Range Rover back.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: What is that? I love when she left her standing there in the Burberry outfit, though. That’s like 2000 memes. Her mom is selling that car. Did I send you that?

Sharon: No. Does she have another car?

Caitlin: No, the one. The Range Rover. And she’s, like, trying to sell it, saying, like, Monica wasn’t making the payments for it, so she took it back. But it’s, like, a famous car, so she’s, like, trying to get a lot of money for it. I think because of the cars. She has 40 kids.

Sharon: It probably has, like, goldfish crunched up in it.

Caitlin: Yeah, but famous goldfish, it’s not like our kids goldfish.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Caitlin: I don’t know. Obviously, it’s pretty easy to call who wins and who doesn’t win over this. Yeah, but I think the important thing about it is do we believe anything that her mom said in this? Do you think there’s any chance it’s a storyline between the two of them?

Sharon: I don’t know. At first, I kind of thought maybe Monica’s mom was annoying, but she was exaggerating. Then it’s like, no, her mom is messed up.

Caitlin: It went over and over. Her mom is just above and beyond ridiculous. And the stuff she said at the reunion about her mom wanting to be the housewife.

Sharon: Yes, that ring. Very true.

Sharon: I don’t know, because there was that one, you know, that one fake clip that came out where her mom.

Caitlin: Was telling her how to handle it.

Sharon: It was like, this is your story. You have to do this. And her mom was really controlling.

Caitlin: Controlling?

Sharon: It’s kind of like a stage mom.

Caitlin: Yes, that’s exactly what it is. That’s a really good point.

Sharon: Except she’s 40.

Caitlin: Yeah, right. And it’s interesting seeing the kids because you sometimes think the kids will love their grandma anyway. But her older daughter is really, like, you can see the space there, which also makes me kind of suspicious.

Sharon: It’s like clearly there’s more. Her older daughter seems much more mature than Monica.

Caitlin: So much more.

Caitlin: Yeah. Interesting.

Caitlin: I also think you can see like when Monica’s so touched by that queen for the day birthday party in Bermuda.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: The fact that she was so touched by it, I think kind of also says something about her mom, like, because she clearly didn’t have those special moments growing up.

Caitlin: And it’s like there’s times where you can say like, okay, everyone’s going to have trauma from their childhood, but when you see someone repeatedly reacting the way Monica does.

Caitlin: And she went to therapy and her mom didn’t show up. Her mom’s the one who suggested it, the writings on the wall. And I think it’s not just a storyline.

Sharon: Yeah. And I could see how, I bet you her whole life, because Monica’s kind of outspoken. I bet you everyone believed her mom and never believed her. Everyone thought she was a problem or something. So I can imagine how angry that.

Caitlin: Makes her because you can kind of see the women almost start to go that route at the very beginning. do you think that her mom talked to the family in Bermuda and asked them not to see her?

Sharon: I don’t know.

Caitlin: I can’t quite decide because part of.

Sharon: Me was like, maybe they didn’t understand that cameras were, huh?

Caitlin: And once they did, they were like, yeah. And maybe could they, or the mom explained about the cameras and then they were like, oh, we’re not going to do that.

Sharon: Or did the mom say, like, she’s talking about her family and I don’t know.

Caitlin: I don’t know why she couldn’t have seen them without the cameras. She could have been like, well, we’ll go, Lisa and I’ll go and we’ll talk about later what we did or.

Sharon: Was legitimately, I think she legitimately was upset and thought her mom did. And, you know, at first I’m like, that’s so ridiculous. But her mom is a piece of pr ap, so maybe she probably did it.

Caitlin: I mean, I guess I’m kind of willing to think all the.

Sharon: Yeah, but what would her mama said, like, don’t talk to, like, wouldn’t she.

Caitlin: Be like, don’t film with her? I might be like, I’m not listening to you.

Sharon: Yeah, I can talk to her. She’s an know.

Caitlin: Exactly.

Sharon: It’s very strange.

Caitlin: It’s very strange. I guess that’s kind of what sums up their whole relationship. It’s really strange. Do you think that taking down Jen for Monica was sort of like taking down her mom via proxy? Like she finally got to take down, like an authority figure? That’s really funny. I may not be a therapist, but I can think.

Sharon: She couldn’t take her mom down. She can take Jen down.

Caitlin: Exactly. She was like, finally she was in the control.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: And she was like the one that.

Sharon: She can expose somebody for who they really are.

Caitlin: Exactly. Turn back that page.

Sharon: it’s all making sense.

Caitlin: All right, well, this is an easy one. Who wins versus Monica and her mom, obviously. Monica, well, she doesn’t win.

Sharon: She’s in the right. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I think her mom is.

Caitlin: Quite happy with herself and that is kind of terrifying. Yeah. Okay, let’s talk about Monica versus.

Caitlin: We.

Caitlin: This kind of came up for us when we’re doing our Meredith episode. the question that we’re going to try to figure out in this. So was Meredith set up about all of this stuff? Clearly she was to some extent. Was it a purposeful setup by Monica? Was it premeditated or was it convenient? I guess is the, like, why did, Monica try to frame Meredith around all the sort of, when you’re watching it back, it sort of starts to feel like this long game.

Caitlin: They’re in palm Springs. Monica calls out angie for being rude to meredith and coming on the trip. Like she’s totally on Meredith’s side.

Caitlin: But Angie was her friend. Angie’s the reason she was on the show. Allegedly. And granted, I imagine how you get on the show is kind of like, not necessarily your BFF, but was Monica setting Meredith up about the whole rumors and nastiness of Angie? Was she the person feeding this information, do you think, to Meredith? Or do you think that’s just coincidental?

Sharon: I think that might be coincidental. Okay, so Monica wanted to, her real goal was to go after Angie and make Angie look bad.

Caitlin: Right.

Sharon: And then she realizes, I kind of feel like along the way she realizes, oh, I can bring up this greek mafia stuff via Meredith. Maybe that was, I feel like it was probably more convenient.

Caitlin: But do you think.

Sharon: Oh, I think more like, I think she was going to do it with someone. And then it came, she wanted to bring it to light. And then she’s like, how can I bring up.

Caitlin: Yeah, so Meredith is a convenient. She didn’t pick meredith necessarily. Do you think she walked Meredith into the husband room?

Sharon: No.

Caitlin: Do you, do you think meredith just picked up that from the streets?

Sharon: Maybe. Oh wait, no, because wait, when was that party where, what’s her face brings it up?

Caitlin: when they’re at the aprinoski.

Sharon: Yeah, that was before meredith, right?

Caitlin: That was after, rumors and nastiness. Yeah.

Sharon: Gosh, I really don’t know. What do you think?

Caitlin: Because, well, what I don’t like is meredith’s refusing to say what the rumors of nastiness are. And that is where Monica just throws it out there like it is. Like everyone has been talking about it the whole time. In a way it could have just been convenient.

Caitlin: But where did meredith get the information to start mean again if she’s got burner accounts, if they’re mean? I kind of wonder if the unspoken thing, and I don’t understand why this didn’t come up at the reunion. I want to know why Meredith ended up framed for all of this. Angie and the financial stuff that got sent to her. And then she didn’t receive the DM on the finances. But Monica’s talking about the DM on the finances. Like that was clearly sent by someone, I think, on the team.

Caitlin: But I guess I don’t know for sure about the sean rumors. Yeah, but it feels awfully convenient that then Monica was able to use it. So I guess you could say maybe convenient, but Meredith never brings it up.

Sharon: Except for when she’s drunk. Right, right. It’s just the rumors, the nastiness.

Caitlin: But Monica sort of prompts her on stuff.

Sharon: Hm.

Caitlin: I don’t know. Initially I think maybe it is just kind of a random fluke there and then she realizes that Meredith is already getting the heat so she can just continue to feed her some extra info.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: I also am not entirely sure why she wants to take Angie down again. I just think she’s in this reality von Tees mode and she just can’t stop.

Sharon: Is she maybe jealous of Angie? But why would she be jealous?

Caitlin: I don’t know. Because Sean is a nice husband.

Sharon: I don’t know exactly.

Caitlin: That really annoyed her.

Sharon: Were they friends? Because she must have heard Jen talking about.

Caitlin: Because Jen was really good friends with Angie.

Sharon: Yeah. So maybe she knows something about.

Sharon: Maybe she didn’t like Angie before. Maybe Jen said stuff about Angie.

Caitlin: I mean, I’m sure Jen said something about everything.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Sharon: Maybe she has to hold the phone and listen.

Caitlin: M I don’t know. It’s interesting because at the reunion, they’re still kind of coming for Meredith. Like Meredith said. not Meredith, but Monica says about Meredith that she said that she could sue Angie and take her. Like, there was no reason to bring that up. Like, she’s still throwing the heat onto Meredith and then she’s still sitting right next to, all of this was like, filtered through Meredith, which I think.

Sharon: Is weird because Meredith, if you’re going to be sort of a villain in any kind of way, right? Like, even if Monica devontese stuff didn’t come out, she was still sort of not villainous.

Caitlin: But there was, she never stood up for herself. She never said, I’m not. I mean, she did, but, I.

Sharon: Guess what I was going to say is meredith is the one who will stay on the side, no matter what you do. Like, she stayed on side.

Caitlin: She.

Caitlin: That’s true.

Sharon: Meredith will kind of stick by people even when they do wrong.

Caitlin: You’re right.

Sharon: Why burn? Yeah, jen mary. Why burn meredith when she might be the most willing to like or willing look past?

Caitlin: I just. For some reason I cannot wrap my head around, the more I talk about it, the more I feel like it’s premeditated.

Sharon: Because why didn’t she try to put it on heather? She doesn’t like heather.

Caitlin: Right. Well, but she kind of did because they were bonding. Oh, that’s true.

Sharon: That’s true. Or Lisa.

Caitlin: I mean, she really could have tried whitney. Whitney will say anything, but I think that whitney would have immediately said who sent it to her. I think whitney, might have been smarter about figuring that part out.

Sharon: But why not lisa?

Caitlin: Because she has a team. Sorry. You think you can control Barlow? Yeah. No, ma’am. Yeah, there really isn’t an answer to it. I just think it’s really interesting. It’s one of those things I would want the board with the pins and the string for because it’s like, I just feel like I need to lay out all the rumors that Meredith knew when she knew them, when Monica said them. And it’s such a fun rewatch, people, because you can go back and you can kind of see people’s responses as all this stuff comes out, knowing what you know now. And it really does make it fun.

Sharon: I do need to go back and rewatch.

Caitlin: It’s worth it. okay, so who wins in Monica versus Meredith? Meredith. Yeah. Okay, let’s talk about Monica versus the cast. So now we’ll just really get into the meat of everything.

Sharon: we have the meats.

Caitlin: Yep. That was a surprise. Reality von Tee’s tagline that most people don’t know.

Sharon: Yeah, exactly.

Caitlin: Okay, so, we now know at the end of the season that Monica is part of not the only member of this account, reality Vontiz. she blames Jen. She blames the streets of Salt Lake City for knowing everything. But ultimately, we find out that most of these things are coming from reality fontees. I guess we don’t know that they all are. I mean, it’s a part of. Yeah, but it’s interesting, considering we had the whole burner account issue with the other Angie’s husband with. It’s just. It’s like, man burner accounts big in Salt Lake, apparently. Yeah. Other seasons aren’t dealing with nearly the volume of the burner account that we are in Salt Lake. maybe that says something about the culture.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Sharon: A little backstabbing, maybe a little hidden secret.

Caitlin: okay, so let’s go through this. There’s so much. What’s interesting to watch as you watch it back is there’s a lot of foreshadowing. So, like with Lisa, Monica says, like, thanks to Jen, we’ve all heard things. And then, remember, when Lisa’s talking about her maritime love, she’s like, I know their dark secrets. And then she alludes that Lisa and John aren’t perfect. And I’d kind of forgotten about that.

Sharon: Oh, I forgot about that.

Caitlin: But she throws that out there, and it was like, okay.

Caitlin: Uh-huh.

Caitlin: So then that makes me also a little more suspicious about the Angk husband rumor, because it’s like, well, what was that Lisa and John thing?

Sharon: It was a throwaway.

Caitlin: It was never followed up on. There’s, like, this foreshadowing when Monica and Whitney meet up at the bar, and Whitney kind of says, like, don’t get on Lisa’s bad side. You need to apologize. And then Whitney’s like, I was also a little scared at how fast you turned on Angie Kay. and then, of course, she’ll spread the Angie Kay husband rumor. So it’s interesting because going into it, it’s like, I just kind of didn’t see all this stuff.

Caitlin: Right.

Caitlin: But there’s these little moments of setup, and then we get to the Bermuda triangle dinner theme, and we have the unsolved mysteries, and everyone can ask a mystery. And the person in the doll also, why didn’t heather just. She planned the dinner, right?

Caitlin: Yeah.

Caitlin: So why did she have, I don’t know, Monica’s doll?

Sharon: That was weird.

Caitlin: That was the weirdest thing. I felt like that was, like, a total mistake. Like she had, like, production set it up. They’re like, you guys are supposed to give me. I have Angie Kay’s doll who’s supposed to get like, that was just the one moment that I was like, okay, that’s a little bit. Yeah, I might have edited that. Guys, we’re doing it again. The dolls were in the wrong bowl, but we’re setting up Monica, like Heather says. We believed you. Monica over Meredith. Like, why was that? And then Monica’s like, well, you believe me because I have evidence and proof and direct messages and timelines. And then Heather’s like, so I have questions. And then all of this comes out. She has receipts, proof, time, screenshots. did you like the way that they filmed it? Because I’m kind of going in the order that they filmed. Do you like the fact that we jumped around in time so much? Because that’s what they start with. Before we get to the beach, we play this little game and we’re like, we’re dragging it out. I love talking about the dust. You liked it that way.

Sharon: I thought it was like, TV genius.

Caitlin: Yeah. Because at first I was a little confused because I felt like, well, we’ve seen these previews and they’re not. It’s not coming in the way. but then we rewind, go back to the absolute most brilliant scene in housewives ever. Maybe. I don’t know. There’s something.

Caitlin: Yes.

Caitlin: It’s the weather on the beach. It is. It’s the wind. And the way it standing there.

Caitlin: What is that?

Caitlin: Her pajmina or whatever. It’s like everyone kept saying it was like a renaissance painting because she has, like, this look of pain. And the thing is also just like, it felt so happy in a way. I know it’s sad, but we had our Ogs together for a minute. And the way we liked them without Jen because Jen always drove me crazy. And, ah, it was just so nice to see the four of them come together.

Sharon: Yes.

Caitlin: It was like this little moment before the storm.

Sharon: They all banded together.

Caitlin: They did. And I liked that I did too. A common enemy always helped. And poor Andrew was probably looking down.

Caitlin: I know.

Caitlin: What do you think Monica thought during that whole thing? Like, she had to know that they were filming. I wonder what she thought they were doing.

Sharon: Maybe she was, like, getting her hair done or something. I don’t, like, turn her away from the window. I feel like she would be more suspicious at the dinner if she, like, I feel like she would have. I don’t know.

Caitlin: Yeah, you’re right. yeah. Did it look like she thought it was coming? No, I mean, that, was all.

Sharon: Did Monica defend herself as well?

Caitlin: Monica shuts down.

Sharon: She did not do an awesome job.

Caitlin: She shut down at the pioneer dinner or lunch or whatever that was with Lisa. When Lisa was coming at her, she was just like, I’m not going on the trip. I’m too tired. I’m done. And then she shuts down a little bit here. And the biggest miss for me is she really shuts down at the reunion. We can talk about that in a minute. so when they’re on the beach, they talk about Monica as being reality von tees, who has trolled all of them, started to troll Jen, and then m the trolling went to all of them. And that she learned through her hairdresser, Tanisha, who was BFFs with Monica, who we also learn as part of the account, like, she posted also on reality von Tees. She was Monica’s hairdresser for three years. She was also Heather’s hairdresser. And in figuring out that Monica owed this beauty lab money, which we’ll talk about in our heather episode, Heather’s like, what’s going on here? And that’s when it all comes out. Tanisha is the one who floods her with this information, floods her with digital proof.

Sharon: I need to know if she’s. Tanisha is still her hairdresser.

Caitlin: I wouldn’t trust her after that. Also, now I’m scared about what I say to my hairdresser.

Sharon: I don’t know. I might, because she really owes her.

Caitlin: I feel like the FBI needs to really be using hairdressers to get information. I now feel like this is an untapped meme once.

Sharon: It’s like you know your hairdresser because they can take your hair and plant it anywhere.

Caitlin: Oh, that’s also turning to think about that. I was just thinking they can record you and turn you over to the FBI, but also they can plant evidence and the power of hairdressers. I’m happy for them.

Sharon: Hi, Jillian.

Caitlin: I think they’ve been overlooked.

Sharon: I love my hairstylist. She’s awesome. She would do that.

Caitlin: She would not do that. so I’m just thinking about, would you keep her as your hairdresser, though? I mean, she told you what you wanted to know.

Sharon: She did have a crisis of conscience, and she came clean.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Sharon: You didn’t find her out. She came clean. Assuming, actually, I don’t know what really.

Caitlin: Led the thing was, okay, here’s what I think is a little bit.

Sharon: She does a good job on her hair.

Caitlin: She came clean, but she was part of the account. She was posting that stuff too.

Sharon: I know, but if she does a really good job in your hair.

Caitlin: Wasn’t like finding out information from Heather though, and posting it.

Sharon: But I know now Heather just gets her hair done and keeps her mouth shut.

Caitlin: Well, okay, I guess what you’re saying is now that the proof is on Heather, it is hard to find a.

Sharon: Stylist that just really gets your hair.

Caitlin: No, it’s true. It’s true.

Sharon: It is true.

Caitlin: It’s taken me years. This is probably my first hairdresser that I’ve loved. And she remembers everything. How do people remember all this stuff too? Like I come in and she’ll be like, oh, how was that trip that you just took? And I’m like, I can’t remember something.

Sharon: You told me, like last week.

Caitlin: I’m like, wait, when do you have your dental appointment? She just remembers everything. Yeah, I guess. Obviously when you have a good one, you don’t want to let them go.

Sharon: Yeah, I think. Yeah, I want to know. Let’s ask her. Let’s ask her on social media. Heather, she’s.

Caitlin: Okay. So she has this crisis subconscious. She comes clean. She basically screws over Monica and everyone else who’s on that account. But Monica is going to take all of the blame for the whole thing, right? I’m m not sure that’s for.

Sharon: That’s the one Monica says it’s like six people.

Sharon: Which makes me wonder how much of it was really Monica. Because didn’t Monica kind of make it sound like it was her before and then she less.

Caitlin: Yes, she does. She seems like she was the Jen part. And I’m wondering how much she was currently like posting during the season and stuff. I bet less and okay, so if.

Sharon: It’S before, I feel different ways about it. I do think she needs to be off the show because I do think it’s such a betrayal. and it’s like it opens the door for just.

Sharon: Wrong reasons, people.

Caitlin: Yes.

Sharon: I think I don’t want that. It’s like I want real relationships because.

Caitlin: The thing that pisses me off is not even so much for the women, but it’s like she tried to manufacture and control her own storyline.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Caitlin: And I know they’re all controlling it.

Sharon: Right.

Caitlin: But we’re led to believe that these stories are coming from genuine places in our life.

Caitlin: And her story is a complete. She controlled the whole narrative and everyone’s narrative.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: There’s something unsettling about that.

Sharon: I totally agree. okay, if this was before she knew she’d ever be on the show.

Sharon: She was just trying to take out Jen. She really just posted Jen stuff. I wouldn’t be as mad at her.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Sharon: I want to know how much did she actually post about the ladies?

Caitlin: It would be interesting because I thought, I thought that burn book fell flat.

Sharon: Oh, my God.

Caitlin: That was what I thought that burn.

Sharon: Book was going to give to what.

Caitlin: Is what she controlled of the account.

Sharon: That was like the dumbest thing ever. I was like excited for it. And then when it happened, I was like, yeah. Was this a joke?

Caitlin: Do you know what is not a letdown for mean girls is their coffee creamer. I currently have mean girls has coffee creamer. They have a coffee creamer with who’s the person that makes all the coffee creamer? It’s like the big one in the big bottles.

Sharon: Oh, like coffee mate?

Caitlin: Yes, it’s coffee mate. And it’s pink and it tastes sort of like frost. Like cupcake frosting.

Sharon: You should come over and have, like, toaster shootouts.

Caitlin: No, not quite. More like the top of a funfetti. Okay.

Sharon: I know I want that.

Caitlin: And it’s pink, which is a little weird, but still. But that. Yes. Monica’s. I also think what Monica does is she causes fear in the group, and I don’t like that because no one knows what they can say and what they can trust. So to film with her, especially right after it, no one’s going to want to and no one’s going to open up and it’s going to change any hope of having an honest conversation and an honest dialogue.

Sharon: Right, because she’s just a troll.

Caitlin: Exactly.

Sharon: You don’t want to be friends with a troll.

Caitlin: And they had all the stalking stuff kind of coming out. And I know that it seems silly and stuff, and I could see doing it too. But again, I guess the other question is, ah, at what point did she decide she wanted to try to be a housewife? Because when she’s at the reunion, she says, well, I just told them the show was horrible and stupid and they needed me. And he’s like, wait, what? That’s what you said. it felt a little more like, how long have you been scheming to get on here? And so was this your way to get on here? Okay, but that’s not how the game is supposed to work. We know that nobody’s playing it 100% honest, but we don’t want to see that level of control. It’s like when we talked about, we don’t necessarily want to see. We want to see the rich. We want to see the $20,000 ring. We want to see Lisa Barlow being crazy about these. That’s what we’re here to see, because our life is Monica’s.

Sharon: We don’t want to see Monica’s life.

Caitlin: I don’t want to see Monica’s life. I want to see Lisa’s life. And so it’s like when she kind of brings all that and then is negative about all of the stuff that is what we love about the show, and then betrays all the women that we also love.

Sharon: Yes.

Caitlin: Whether you like her or not, it doesn’t feel good in the show.

Sharon: It doesn’t because I’m less mad at.

Caitlin: Her than I was. I mean, honestly, I feel like in space, in a few years, she could maybe come back.

Sharon: M yeah, but you’re right. She really had it out for these women in some way that had nothing to do with them.

Caitlin: She set it up, made her a one season housewife.

Caitlin: And it’s unfortunate, but if you’re going to play it that way, you’re going to burn out too soon. And that’s what she did.

Sharon: M. Now, what was the whole thing? Okay, I still don’t fully understand this. She had videos, like, she set up Jen’s security system so she would spy on her. Is this.

Caitlin: That feels super sketchy, by the way.

Caitlin: Okay.

Caitlin: And illegal. Well, I guess it’s not illegal, but are you sure?

Sharon: I don’t know.

Caitlin: Because they say employees aren’t supposed to set up cameras and watch. But is it okay to watch your employer?

Sharon: No, I don’t think she was in her house. Was it just in the office?

Caitlin: No, I don’t think so. I think it was the whole house.

Sharon: That’s really weird.

Caitlin: It’s not.

Sharon: Okay, I’m sorry. That really creeps me out.

Caitlin: Let your assistant set up here. Is that what she was.

Sharon: She was implying, though, that she had, like.

Caitlin: I don’t know.

Caitlin: She was saying straight out that she did. Yeah. And so I think that scares the women and the fact that she was, like, stalking their house, even though maybe the FBI told her to remember that part of the where she was like, no, the FBI asked her.

Sharon: She wanted to go catch Jen. Yeah, that was a,

Caitlin: She was going to go out drunk driving. She’s a citizen arrest.

Sharon: Thing I have ever heard. The FBI is like, yeah, Monica. Oh, God. Okay. The whole stalking Jen thing, really, I didn’t understand.

Caitlin: I didn’t either. And again, it was like, it’s part of that fear that we’re talking about. Like, Monica just in the reunion and all the stuff that comes, you’re, you’re tapping into all these fears of people that people have. It’s interesting because now we can see why they kept them apart at, you know, Monica said, like, bermuda wasn’t the time for everything to come out. And there was so much more of her story that needed to be told. Nothing came out there, was there? Because if so, she clammed up when.

Sharon: She said, there’s so much more. I can’t wait to tell. And I thought at the reunion, especially when I saw the preview of the book, I was like, there’s going to be so much. I felt like maybe some of the other ladies were in on it or.

Caitlin: Something, like that stupid eye overshadowed it because it was more interesting.

Sharon: At that point, she had nothing else. She had no defense.

Caitlin: Nothing.

Caitlin: No.

Caitlin: And all she did, anything that she did do was just to say it was the other woman’s fault, which is never going to. You think? I think Monica can’t. This is my theory. I think Monica can’t see the situation straight because she sees herself as like Robin Hood. Like, she’s the poor. She came in, she took down the rich.

Sharon: So it’s okay.

Caitlin: It’s okay. Whatever means she had to do to do it.

Sharon: The, end justifies the means.

Caitlin: Exactly. She’s got the hat with the,

Sharon: Right.

Caitlin: I mean, that’s.

Sharon: You’re right. I think Monica has this weird. She thinks she’s like the hero in this end.

Caitlin: Yeah, I think she absolutely does. Because she said, like, Jen scammed the elderly. How am I worse than because, and.

Sharon: It’S not that they’re worse. It’s not that it’s different. Monica, Jen scammed the elderly.

Caitlin: Right.

Sharon: She didn’t scam Heather.

Caitlin: Right.

Sharon: So Heather can be like, it’s different on a personal level. It’s like, I think you’re a horrible person for scamming the elderly. But as far as how you treated me as a friend, maybe, you could have been a good friend or whatever.

Caitlin: Exactly. they can still look each other in the eye.

Sharon: Yeah, exactly. Because their relationship was maybe the whole.

Caitlin: Time Jen was telling them that she didn’t do so they were also confused.

Sharon: So it’s different. It’s like, look, yes, Jen, skim the elderly, but what you did, it’s a totally different type of thing. This was not a legal thing. It was a friendship betrayal. I mean, they’re both morally wrong.

Caitlin: I mean, like Andy says, her plotting to get on the show is not a crime, which is true. So it is different from Jen in that respect. But then Andy’s like, why didn’t you tell them? And then Monica says, well, I knew it would come out. Andy’s like, why not?

Sharon: She knew the fair thing was going to. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, oh, hey, everyone.

Caitlin: I think she could have stayed all the seasons if she had just, I mean, I’m glad she didn’t because I think it’s some of the best TV. So from a selfish standpoint, but I think she could have gone in and said, I took down Jen. I actually tried to take down all of you. And I probably need to have some apologies because that’s what the season works for.

Sharon: You do your little apology tour, huh?

Caitlin: And then you all come together in Bermuda. Yeah, but that’s not what happened. And so she kept hiding it. I mean, she just kept lying because.

Sharon: She was lying because was she really still trying to troll them?

Caitlin: I don’t know.

Sharon: We’re kind of acting you can make money on.

Caitlin: She was probably making money.

Sharon: We’re kind of acting like, no, she wasn’t doing it anymore. It’s almost like we’re talking about it from that place.

Caitlin: Maybe she was, maybe she was, she may have been still feeding stuff to.

Sharon: People and this and that. I mean, she could be horrible.

Caitlin: She could, because she wanted the money. I mean, yeah, she was selling, she was selling the fucking pics. She doesn’t have a like because she was selling pics to TMZ.

Sharon: Oh, was she?

Caitlin: Uh-huh I think of Jen. So it’s like, I mean, secret agent Monica was also running a little side business.

Sharon: Yeah, she’s taking down Jen, right. When she’s not a good, loyal person either.

Caitlin: And you also can’t sell yourself as the most transparent person. I’ve told you everything. I told you about this thing with my brother in law and I told you about this and that and the other. I’m so honest and I’m so open. And then, oh, by the way, I have a super secret secret that actually affects you directly.

Caitlin: It’s like, yeah, no, you can’t do like when Andy said, are you really surprised that they’re this upset? Yeah, she was. I think, I really do think she thought it would blow over. It’s not going to blow.

Sharon: Absolutely not. Especially when you saw the conversation with her and her mom m where her mom was like about how it’s all still a storyline.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Sharon: I don’t think it’s just that she was on reality on Tuesday. Now I’m a housewife and now I want to move on and be, I think she’s, the more I think about it, the more I think she’s still in on it. And I’m actually being too kind to her.

Caitlin: I know I kind of can’t decide because also sometimes people have said, some people online have said, oh, she’s actually really nice in person and she’ll donate things and she helps in the community and stuff. She can be true.

Sharon: Exactly.

Caitlin: And sometimes I wonder, is she just so much wanting her star and her fame that she’s just like, I’m willing to be the victim. I’m willing to let you say all these things about me and I’m not going to defend it because it keeps me relevant, it keeps me here. I don’t love that. Because again, I think it messes with what we’re trying to accomplish, mean with what we want to believe about our housewives worlds. It causes us to, it’s the whole wizard of Oz, like the peeking behind the curtain thing. It causes us to do that. And we don’t like that. It makes us uncomfortable.

Caitlin: Monica.

Caitlin: Makes us uncomfortable.

Sharon: She does.

Caitlin: And I don’t know where I stand with that because part of me is like, well, she brought great television. I like her for that.

Sharon: What cost?

Caitlin: But at what cost?

Sharon: And at what’s the word? What do you precedent.

Caitlin: I mean, I feel it made us right for saying all these times that we love Salt Lake so much and people Salt Lake whenever. And I was like, ha. It’s really good, guys. And you finally have to admit. So, like, I appreciate it from that standpoint of being right, like Monica. I like being right, apparently. I don’t know. Do you think that there’s any grace to be given to Monica? Like Andy asked that question at the reunion.

Sharon: Yeah, I mean, I think there’s always, I think Monica is kind of a messed up person.

Caitlin: Yes. And I think you have to look at it as that.

Sharon: I think she does have a lot of pain. I think her mom is super messed up and messed her up in a lot of ways. And for that, I think Monica really wants to be part of a group.

Caitlin: Right? I think so.

Sharon: And I think if she can be like, I think there is room to be friends with her in the future? I don’t know.

Caitlin: And I do think from Heather’s standpoint, maybe not the other, but from Heather’s, I feel know you backed to Jen and were wrong. Exactly. You lied about the eye and were wrong and people forgave you and you were in Mormonism, know, like you’ve said, has this history of racism and being against LGBTQIA and all that. I mean, it’s like you have to understand that sometimes people are wrong. And so I think the thing with Monica is like, I think they were smart to take her off the season. I think it would have wrecked the show. I don’t think it’ll work. And people are saying they’re not going to watch. Do you think the numbers are going to drop a ton?

Sharon: No.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Caitlin: I don’t know. I’m sure there were some people who jumped on the bandwagon. It’s like with Scandalvall when I was like, well, I better start watching this show. I mean, I’m sure there’s a lot of people with that too, so there will be. But that would have happened probably anyway.

Sharon: Oh, exactly.

Caitlin: No matter what, because they aren’t fans of the show.

Caitlin: So I’m not sure that that’s like a huge problem. But, I do think that they were smart to do the time and give the space and I think she could come back down the road.

Sharon: Is she sorry? I think that’s another thing.

Caitlin: No, I think she thinks she’s Robin Hood.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Sharon: So then maybe there isn’t room to give her. I mean, because you give people that apologize and that feel bad.

Caitlin: And the one thing that got me, she was kind of crappy to Andy about the hiring and the stuff.

Sharon: Yes.

Caitlin: It was kind of know, if you’re going to be mean to the person in charge, he. They may not want to invite you back either.

Sharon: Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.

Caitlin: Exactly. Okay, this is sort of a little side question, but Monica and Mary, what is up with? So initially I thought it was so cute because Mary finally had a little buddy, was kind of like breaking through her icy exterior when they went shopping in springs. But why does Mary stay her ally through the reunion through all. What is that?

Sharon: I think Mary is like, what do you call it? She goes for the. She wants to be friends with the villain or whatever. Sorry, man.

Caitlin: I guess so. But she was friends with Meredith. I mean, Meredith’s pretty nice.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: I just thought Mary always was trying to stay out of the heat, so it seemed weird to jump right, Mary.

Sharon: Actually, it almost seems more of a response to Mary not liking the other. And since they don’t like yes. Okay. It’s like, so enemy of whatever.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Caitlin: Is my friend.

Sharon: I still don’t fully understand why Mary.

Caitlin: Yes. Doesn’t like hashtag team Monica and hashtag not exactly. Do you think there will be any scenes with Monica this coming season? Like, I know they said that she’s not. but I wonder, do you think Mary will film with her? Do you think because it’s like Mary’s.

Sharon: Going to be a housewife.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Caitlin: Allegedly full time.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Caitlin: Ah, that’s what they’re saying.

Sharon: I could see her being in a scene.

Caitlin: Yeah. I kind of wonder if she and Mary will have a little meal that.

Sharon: They’Ll film or just like a following her. It’ll be interesting.

Caitlin: Could.

Sharon: Now, if they let her do that.

Caitlin: That means she hasn’t broken ties with Bravo. If they don’t at all.

Sharon: Yeah.

Caitlin: I don’t know.

Caitlin: And Bravo might not want to piss off the other women, so maybe they won’t.

Sharon: That’s true.

Caitlin: But I feel like it could say some things. I don’t know.

Sharon: And what was the whole thing with her baby blanket company? Like, not shipping orders or shipping orders.

Caitlin: Closed it down during the pandemic. And then I think getting it back up, maybe she didn’t have the same production. I feel like it’s a she by charade issue.

Sharon: Okay, see, I felt like maybe it was more of a scam.

Caitlin: Well, who mean she was trained by know? Yeah, I don’t know. It’s interesting because the people who love her are just like, defender to the hilt. And I’m not as mad at her as I was a few weeks ago. I still like her.

Sharon: I like Monica.

Caitlin: I still like her as a person, as a character.

Sharon: I don’t like what she did.

Caitlin: I don’t like what she did.

Sharon: But overall, I think I like her, and I feel like she’s interesting. Uh-huh like what you said with her childhood, I wouldn’t trust her.

Caitlin: No, damn sure that’s true. I probably wouldn’t give her the keys to my car. Oh, yeah.

Sharon: She might put a video camera in it.

Caitlin: She’ll talk to people. Don’t talk people in my car. All right, who wins in Monica versus the cast? The cast, especially the. I don’t. It’s just Monica’s such an enigma, and she’s such an outlier to the housewives world that she’s interesting. She’s really fun to talk about.

Caitlin: She is.

Caitlin: I was scared by this episode. Now I want to talk about it more. I want to keep saying, but we won’t. all right, remember to go online to our Instagram and our threads account. Also, we really want to get out there to people. We’re our little podcast that could. We want to get out there to more people. I’m trying to be like the little train that could. We’re chugging, but we want to chug a little faster up that hill. Right? So maybe share us with a friend or something. Was that totally cheesy? No, I like kind of what we are.

Sharon: I thought it was really sweet.

Caitlin: It was charcuterie cheese.

Sharon: Now I don’t like it.

Caitlin: Now I take it back. If you’d like to talk with us about charcuterie or apparently trains, you can go on our Instagram. anyway, also, we have our Patreon account, and we have really, really fun, yearbook episodes where we kind of equate people to their superlatives. It’s really funny. We go really out there and trying to figure out what happened during the season that we loved and hated, and they’re fun. So join our Patreon, and you’ll get access to those. yeah. All right. Remember, housewives bring the drama.

Sharon: We bring the receipts, proof, timeline, screenshots.

Caitlin: Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please hit the subscribe button. If you’d like to help support us, please share it with others and leave a rating and review. Also visit us on Instagram and Twitter, both ah at RH for fun Pictures and polls, or email us at ah, rhonrhpodcast@gmail.com. Thanks again, and remember to stay out of the shade.